Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
Bishop of Lyons, and Father of the Church.
He was born in Proconsular Asia, or at least in some province bordering thereon, in the first half of the second century; the exact date is controverted, between the years 115 and 125, according to some, or, according to others, between 130 and 142. It is certain that, while still very young, Irenaeus had seen and heard the holy Bishop Polycarp (d. 155) at Smyrna.
*You are new to FR and all of your claims are either incorrect or merely personal opinion. You appear to have arrived bearing a lot of antiCatholic baggage.
Good bye
"*You are new to FR and all of your claims are either incorrect or merely personal opinion. You appear to have arrived bearing a lot of antiCatholic baggage."
----- You are incorrect again. You seem to be burdened with a lot of anti-historical baggage. I'm just trying to lighten your load.
You are the one who asked me if another poster had "reported (you) to the 'hall monitor'"
What on earth are you talking about there?
So full of bitterness and hatred that you can't even track your own comments?
And are you not missing your all-day snake handling session at the local fire-n-brimstone/gimme-all-yer-money "church?"
Do not respond to the attacks. Let the scriptures make your arguments.
---- Nice Try. Give it up.
First of all, if you mention me in a post to someone else, you're obliged to ping me.
What's with the "she" ?
I never said anyone was being mean to AlaninSA
I didn't "tattle" on you. if I did, I wouldn't call it "tattle"--I'd call it pushing the abuse button.
(which I didn't bother to do)
And AlaninSA can take care of himself. He doesn't need me to do it for him.
How come you are calling this a "Catholic Forum". This is the Religion Forum of Free Republic.
If you mean a Catholic-interest thread, that's something different.
I've always been under the impression that had so many followers of Peter placed their faith in the the same object of Peter's faith as they did in the person of Peter, then the succession spoken would be concurrent. That same faith was spoken to Peter by the Father and acted through by the Son and made effective for salvation in the regeneration of the spirit by the Holy Spirit, all three being the same God.
Sure there was, namely God, the Holy Spirit.
A refutation of the heretics, from the fact that, in the various churches, a perpetual succession of bishops was kept up
1. It is within the power of all, therefore, in every Church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were by the apostles instituted bishops in the Churches, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew of anything like what these [heretics] rave about. For if the apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were in the habit of imparting to "the perfect" apart and privily from the rest, they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men; which men, if they discharged their functions honestly, would be a great boon [to the Church], but if they should fall away, the direst calamity.
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere. [Ad hanc enim eoclesiam propter potentiorem principalitatem necesse est omnem convenire ecclesiam, hoc est eos qui sunt undique fideles, in qua semper ab his qui sunt undique, conservata est ea quâ est ab apostolis traditio].
3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.
*And who was Linus? The second Pope. He is now known as Pope Saint Linus
Have a nice life :)
Should of pinged you.
Chalk one up.
There was (and is) no other Church (in the broad sense of the term). The very same "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church" to which Ignatius belonged is the same one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of which Pope Benedict is the current head.
Great post. Amen!
"...Consider the story of Paul in Berea, Acts 17:10-12. Paul preached there in the synagogue and many Jews responded to his preaching with eagerness. We are told that after they listened to Paul each day they examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true. How did Paul react? Did he say that the Scriptures were not clear, and that only he as an apostle or the rabbis or the Sanhedrin could tell them what the Scriptures really meant? Or did he say that they should not expect to find the truth in the Scriptures because they were incomplete and needed to be supplemented by tradition? Or did he say that they were insulting his apostolic authority, and that they should simply submit to him as the infallible interpreter of the Bible? Or did Paul say that they should defer to Peter as the only one who could interpret the Bible? No! He did not say any of these things. The practice of the Bereans is praised in the Bible. They are called noble because they evaluated everything on the basis of the written Word of God. ..."
---- And "Against Heresies": What book of the Bible was that? Was Irenaeus correct on everything that he wrote?
Take my word for it......He does know what's going on.....in his name.
-A8
Hey, he asked! His question was if you removed all the NT teachings from St. Paul what would we have left for doctrine?
Protestants seem to think that without St. Paul, Christianity would have been in some kind of vacuum and would be without any merit/doctrine
It seems that they forget that before St. Paul, DOCTRINE had already BEEN SET by Jesus Christ and He commissioned His Twelve Apostles to go for forward and spread the good news.
In the second chapter of the Book of Acts, St. Peter stood up during Pentecost, gave a small sermon, and the Church added about 3,000 souls that day. At the end of the second chapter it also states that they were adding to the Church daily.
This was before St. Paul came onto the scene. Do you think they converted thousands of people to the Church without having doctrine/doctrines set in place?
Better yet, all one has to do is have one thought the same as our Lord's, place just an iota of faith in Him through Christ, and it is sufficient for a saving faith.
It has been said that it only takes a very little more faith, than absolutely no faith whatsoever, for a saving faith.
Watch out now....Uncle. When they start calling you a cultist, they're really getting mad!
Not only do we Christians have the authority, we have the glorious responsibility to declare Christ risen, by the work of the Holy Spirit within you and me. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light " -- 1 Peter 2:5-9"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.