Posted on 09/29/2006 8:27:34 AM PDT by Buggman
It is very sad to see one continue in their Roman apostasy, knowing full well their error....but refusing to acknowledge it.
That seems a tad strong. Personally I see nothing in scripture to support either Saturday or Sunday worship. In fact, I would argue that all of this has been done away with:
Gal 4:9-11 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.
Then by what standard shall we be judged? Please don't think I (we) only worship God on the Sabbath. The thesis here is that the Sabbath was the Sabbath in Genesis, in Exodus, in Isaiah, in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, in Acts, and Paul's letters, in Genesis, and beyond. I can't speak for my Sabbatarian brothers, but I would never not worship God on any day of the week. My burning question is that since the only day ever commanded to be kept Holy by God is the 7th day, then why do nearly all the Protestants keep the day commanded by the Church they are Protesting?
Isa 66:22 "For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure. Isa 66:23 "And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.
Galatians was written to Gentile believers who used to worship the elements. Do you really believe that Paul would call the 10 Commandments "worthless elemental things"?
Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. God did away with it all.
I'm curious, where is it all done away with if Isaiah prophesied that the Sabbath will be in the new earth?
If you are having trouble finding a Sabbatarian Church, here is a list:
Seventh Day Baptist
Seventh Day Adventist
United Church of God
Independent Churches of God (100% Sabbath with only about 5% of the doctrine and no MSG!)
Messianic Jew
Judging from your posts, I think you might find the easiest transition with the 7th Day Baptists.
FRegards,
Chris
"So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. ... But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region." (vv. 42,43,50)
As it was Paul custom, he preached the gospel to the Jews in their synagogues on their sabbath. When the apostate leaders of the Jews refused to listen to the gospel, Paul took his message to the Jews and gentiles who would listen. They merely gathered on the customary day of the Jews. No big mystery.
You still cannot point out where the church specifically is mentioned in this verse.
We know it was the custom, of the Jews to worship on the last day sabbath. We know it was the custom of Paul to preach the gospel to the Jews in their synagogues on the last day sabbath.
But you still have no record of the church (baptized Jews and gentiles) coming together to worship -- to break bread in the Lord's Supper and to hear the preaching of the good news about Jesus Christ -- on the last day sabbath.
I realize this is a hard fact some some folks to accept, but such is the case. You can read Acts 13 plainly and conclude "nearly the whole city" does not equal "the church".
It'd as if one is saying that "nearly the whole city" came out to a Billy Graham crusade on a Saturday. Billy picks his dates to get maximum audience exposure. Paul did the same thing when he preached the gospel to unbelievers on the sabbath of the Jews.
"And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Then they were baptized and became identified with Christ's body, the church, and, as was the custom of the apostles, began to gather on the first day of the week as we see in Acts 20.
I'm a Christian sabbatarian. I acknowledge that the practice of the church universal for 2000 years is agreeable with the entire revelation of the Word of God.
None of the picking and choosing of verses by old covenant sabbatarians has changed my mind regarding the correct interpretation of God's holy revelation.
We've been here before.
There is no mention of the worship of baptized Christians (Jews and gentiles) in Acts 18. There is a discussion of the customary worship of Jews on their sabbath, and the habit of Paul, Apollos, and others to preach Christ to them on their day.
What you refer to as "Roman apostasy" is merely the recognition of the universal practice of the church according to the Scripture (apostolic teaching) and a refusal to fall under the anti-scriptural teaching of certain old covenant sabbatarian cults.
you mean.....The Catholic Sabbath?????
Graphical shouting never takes the place of careful, reasonable exegesis of the Scripture.
Little "c" catholic, yes. I'm sure from your understanding of church history you can figure it out.
Now, will you also affirm that yours is the habit of the cults?
I believe the sabbath principle of one day in seven as outlined in the 4th commandment is eternally binding on all men in all ages. I also believe that the particular day of the week was not eternally set, and that under the old covenant the weekly sabbath was on the last day while under the new covenant the weekly sabbath/Lord's Day has been the first day of the week.
Exodus 20:10 says, "... but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." Note that it does not say the sabbath day is the seventh day. It says the seventh day is the sabbath day. And so it was under the old covenant, just as new moons and feast days were also designated as sabbath days.
While the day could change (and did according to the apostles) the principle of one day in seven remains the eternal. That is why it is placed among the Ten Words written by the finger of God Himself.
Exodus 20:10 says, "... but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." Note that it does not say the sabbath day is the seventh day. It says the seventh day is the sabbath day. And so it was under the old covenant, just as new moons and feast days were also designated as sabbath days.
While the day could change (and did according to the apostles) the principle of one day in seven remains the eternal. That is why it is placed among the Ten Words written by the finger of God Himself.
92 posted on 10/10/2006 9:58:04 AM MDT by topcat54
How do you take the leap to the Pagan day of Sunday and ignore the G-d-breathed Word of G-d?
b'shem Yah'shua
Last time I checked all the days of the week belonged to the Lord.
"The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein."
To suggest one day of the week is more "pagan" than another is pure nonsense.
We also know that Jesus Christ Himself is "Lord of the sabbath".
The Word of God includes the testimony of the apostles and prophets in what we call the New Testament. It reflects the reality of Christ's new kingdom and the new covenant made in His blood.
God's people no longer live in the shadows of the old covenant that was decaying and has passed away. When Christ rose on the first day of the week, and met with His disciples on the first day of the week, and poured out His Holy Spirit on the first day of the week, He established an infallible pattern that His apostles used to teach the church, baptized Jews and gentiles, how to truly worship Him in Spirit and Truth on the first day of the week.
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
How odd that Luke would record Christians worshipping on an allegedly "pagan" day.
Paul preached a message and the baptized believers in the Lord Jesus Christ participated in His communion meal. This is Christian worship in the simplicity intended by God Himself.
The beggardly elements of the ceremonial law no longer bind God's people. We do not worship according to Hagar, the earthly Jerusalem. Those who worship on the last day are the children of Hagar. But the Jerusalem above is free.
"The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein."
To suggest one day of the week is more "pagan" than another is pure nonsense.
We also know that Jesus Christ Himself is "Lord of the sabbath".
Amen, topcat. You've helped me to understand this.
I'm always puzzled by the few Christians who do not embrace the fact that when the old covenant ended, the new covenant called for a new beginning, the first day of the week, the day Christ was resurrected and proved it all true.
A perfect symmetry.
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
How odd that Luke would record Christians worshipping on an allegedly "pagan" day.
Paul preached a message and the baptized believers in the Lord Jesus Christ participated in His communion meal. This is Christian worship in the simplicity intended by God Himself.
The beggardly elements of the ceremonial law no longer bind God's people. We do not worship according to Hagar, the earthly Jerusalem. Those who worship on the last day are the children of Hagar. But the Jerusalem above is free.
94 posted on 10/10/2006 1:04:53 PM MDT by topcat54
To a Jew as Paul, the first day is Saturday evening when it was traditional to have a meal after the shabbat. I believe this has been answered more than once.
b'shem Y'shua
I'm afraid it hasn't been answered, at least not very well.
Luke, the author of Acts, was writing to a gentile named Theophilus. Theophilus would have understood Luke's words just as we understand them, as referring to Sunday, the first day of the week.
In addition, even accounting for a Jewish way of reckoning the days, it plainly says that there broke bread and Paul preached "on first day of the week."
Let's actually look at the text and not guess what it says.
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight."
It explicitly says they came together "on the first day of the week." It does not say they were gathered on the last day and then lingered on into the first day.
That may have been late Saturday evening or very early Sunday morning, or perhaps Sunday afternoon into the evening, but it was still the first day of the week. It was not the Jewish sabbath. It says nothing about what may or may not have happened on the Jewish sabbath since these were Christians. This was not a post-sabbath meal of the Jews. This was the Lord's Supper being celebrated by baptized believers in Jesus Christ.
That is a fact. We can deal with facts. We do not deal as well with speculation, esp. when trying to assert theological points.
The entire old covenant sabbath argument is about speculation.
There is no evidence that the church, baptized Jews and gentiles, worshipped on the Jewish, last day, old covenant sabbath.
That is also a fact.
You always come back to this false statement. I have showed you time after time this is totally non scriptural....but you persist. You obviously wish this were the case....to support your "Pagan Day of the Sun" theory....but you know it's not.
Acts 20:8 Must have been a cloudy day!
Dude, I showed you unequivocally in huge bold letters that the Gentiles and the Jews came together on the Sabbath. The same text also says that the Jews were supposed to be a light to the world. They kept the Sabbath as a light to guide Gentiles to do the same.
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