Posted on 09/01/2006 5:32:18 AM PDT by xzins
They're the ones who voted to disinvest everything from Israel. They're the pro-palestinian, pro-Hamas group. I'm pretty sure of it.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." -- Matthew 10:32-36"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Do the Apaches own their land by "hereditary right?"
Do those verses have something to do with post #249? If not, I'm not sure what you'd want me to comment on.
No.
Unless you've got a lost book of the bible assigning it to them. :>)
To withdraw financial aid and put that money into places where it is needed in the United States is not the same thing AT ALL as saying they hope for the demise of Israel.
I'm not sure any church should be putting its congregation's money into armaments, foreign or domestic. Do you?
They were divesting from Israel because they had chosen sides with the palestinians.
It's rampant in my denom, too, so I know how the game is played and why it's being played that way.
Christ Himself says He will deny before the Father in heaven anyone who denies Him.
But your attempt at humor here shows those are mighty uncomfortable verses for your side of the discussion.
I agreee that it's politics. And it comes from high up, but not THAT high up.
Jesus didn't say a single thing about Apaches.
What are you driving at?
Hereditarily, Apaches lived in Texas, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico through their racial lineage. Many say they still own the land that was taken from them.
Same with Mexico and the California coast. Should we give Santa Monica back to Mexico because they say they were there first?
Biblically, Scripture tells us that the promise God made to Abraham has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ for all nations and races.
The only blood that matters now is the shed blood of Christ.
God is not finished with the nation of Israel yet. His promises to national Israel are still valid, imho. Therefore, to say that they have a biblical and hereditary claim on the land of Israel is to acknowledge that those descendants are the ones to which I refer.
There is no such basis for the Apaches.
Of course we know that in the past Jesus warned His contemporary Jewish brethren that because they killed the prophets and killed the "son of the landowner" that God would remove the kingdom from them and visit His vengeance upon them, upon "this generation". As it says in the law " For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me." Those Jews declared, "His blood be on us and on our children." It's the same as the generation that wandered in the wilderness of Sinai until they had all been killed off for their own, personal sin.
Futurist dispensationalists have no reason to say why God will visit His judgment upon Israel in the future. There is no scriptural reason for such a judgment. It's pure speculation on your behalf.
So, you can try to relate the two ideas, but it just won't work. In the end you are left with absolutely no explanation for why God would kill millions of unconverted Jews after the secret rapture of the church.
"And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me.
But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying:
Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him." -- Acts 28:17-31
It doesn't speak to your issue.
Great point.
I think we lose perspective sometimes by not realizing that less than 100 generations have passed since the days of Jesus Christ.
"This generation shall not pass" clearly is speaking to the current generation to whom it was written.
And three of the Gospel writers wrote the verse exactly the same...
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30 "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34
Yes, it does.
No it doesn't.
He's referring to that generation at the time of the end. It's clear as a bell to me. Other considerations (such as the extent of the prophecies He was just talking about) clearly indicate to me that He's talking about a different "day and hour" when these things will happen.
32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
He doesn't say "that generation."
He says "this generation." Contemporaneous.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.