Posted on 09/01/2006 5:32:18 AM PDT by xzins
On top of that, consider that Esau and Jacob were twins. Now if they were identical twins, they have the same DNA.
Say you find a group of isolated Yemen tribesmen, and you test their paternal DNA. Up it comes identical to what you claim is Jacob's, but is it? Maybe they are descended from Esau.
It's just a whole big can of worms, and Israel can't be numbered unless the Lord says so.
Furthermore, how can you different any DNA still in the world from fathers and brothers of Abraham?
You just do not want to concede that the seed of Abraham (the one Seed) that inherits the promise is a spiritual son, a son like unto Abel, a son like unto Moses, a son like unto Isaac, a son like unto Jacob, a son like unto Ephraim, and a son of the firstborn spiritually like unto Jesus, and that's the lesson of the bible, no matter what you want to believe.
Say you find a group of isolated Yemen tribesmen, and you test their paternal DNA. Up it comes identical to what you claim is Jacob's, but is it? Maybe they are descended from Esau.
It's just a whole big can of worms, and Israel can't be numbered unless the Lord says so. Furthermore, how can you different any DNA still in the world from fathers and brothers of Abraham?
You just do not want to concede that the seed of Abraham (the one Seed) that inherits the promise is a spiritual son, a son like unto Abel, a son like unto Moses, a son like unto Isaac, a son like unto Jacob, a son like unto Ephraim, and a son of the firstborn spiritually like unto Jesus, and that's the lesson of the bible, no matter what you want to believe.
Great post. Amen! To predicate salvation or God's favor on DNA sequencing is preposterous. It harkens back to all sorts of cultic errors.
"...all one in Christ Jesus."
It could also possibly be the generation after the six day war in 1963, I believe. I read that 'theory' once myself. We'll soon know, I think.
Appreciate your continued respect for Judaism.
I very much hope you'll be among those blessed
for blessing Israel.
Disagree. 6 million of the world's apprx 13 million Jews live in Israel. If you're against the existence of 6 million Jews you're pretty much anti-semetic.
Anti-zionism differs from other expressions of anti-semitism only in which aspect of Jewish identity it chooses to hate. Those medival Christians who burned Jews alive also claimed (and perhaps sincerely) that they did not oppose all Jews, only those Jews who insisted on retaining their Jewish religious beliefs and practices. Anti-zionists make the identical claim, differing in only which Jewish belief motivates them to oppose Jews. While supporting or actually engaging in the killing of Jews and attempts to destroy the Jewish state, antizionists, like those medival anti-semites deny despising all Jews; they only despise those Jews who insist upon retaining their Jewish national beliefs and homeland. And just as there were a few medival Jews who gave up loyalty to the Jewish religion and were spared the hatred of Christian anti-semites, so today there are a few Jews who do not identify with Jewish nationhood and are spared the hatred of anti-zionists.
In fact, Adolph Hitler and the Nazis were the only anti-semites in history to admit to hating all Jews, no matter what their religious or national beliefs. All other anti-semites, like the anti-zionists, have claimed to hate only those Jews who held certain Jewish beliefs. Unless the Nazis are to be considered the only anti-semites in history, anti-zionists are as anti-semetic as every other type of anti-semite. Only their motivation may differ. Like all other anti-semites, anti-zionists are at war with nearly every Jew (nearly every Jew has some sense of Jewish national identity and supports Israel's right to exist).
I don't hate any Jews anywhere, and it's wrong of you to say this about people on this forum.
People should be able to profess theological differences without slandering each other.
Like all other anti-semites, anti-zionists are at war with nearly every Jew (nearly every Jew has some sense of Jewish national identity and supports Israel's right to exist).
So far in these discussions I've heard exactly ZERO persons deny "Israel's right to exist," no matter how many times you try to say otherwise.
I think its the generation that begins to see the signs that relate to the end, about which Jesus was talking in Mt 24 and Lu 21.
2. Politically, they are our ally in the Mid-East, and perhaps one of only 3 sure allies in the entire world.
3. They are the only true democracy in their part of the world.
The above statement in my previous post is what you should chew on for awhile.
According to the futurist dispensationalist theory, He loves them so much that two-thirds of them will be killed in a massive holocaust after the church is raptured from the scene. This is the non-elect portion of Israel. Of the elect we are supposedly told that "for their sake" the days of the future holocaust, the great tribulaiton, will be cut short. But again that is only after two-thirds of the Jews have already been killed.
The non-dispensational hope is that all of the elect from both Israel and from among the gentiles will come to a saving knowledge of Christ has He has determined according to His predetermined plan, foreknowledge, and sovereign will. It is not dependent on some end-times geopolitical fiasco.
"They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea." (Isa. 11:9)
"And so all Israel will be saved."
Theories and speculation to excite the senses. That's all we seem to have working here.
You can't say for sure if it was 1948, or 1968, or 1973, or 1988, or 1998, or ... because everytime a date comes and goes you need to revise the theory.
I'm just glad Jesus and the apostles were not so speculative as modern day prophecy preachers selling their books and videos.
As has been pointed out, you think God loves them so much that He killed 2/3rds of them in the past.
You also think that God who loved the world so much is going to destroy it with fire, don't you?
You think He's sending folks to hell "where the fire is not quenced and their worm does not die."
LOL.
I can deal with it. I think all kinds of bad things happen every single day of the year. The Croc Hunter was killed yesterday by a stingray barb.
According to the futurist dispensationalist theory, He loves them so much that two-thirds of them will be killed in a massive holocaust after the church is raptured from the scene.
One of these things is not like the other...
It requires no date.
When that generation sees those signs then that is the generation that will not pass away until the rest is fulfilled. Pretty simple grammar, paragraphing, and theme, if you ask me.
Exactly! The Puritans had it right. Today I will toil in the light of the Lord.
No one here is against the independent, U.S.-allied, autonomous state of Israel.
No one. No matter how much you want to frame the debate in political terms.
Show me one member of the discussions here who says Israel as a state does not have as much right to exist as England or Guam.
I don't know some of these people well enough to say that, DrE. For all I know, TC & 1000fish would vote with the PCUSA for the demise of Israel. I'll let them speak to it themselves if they wish to.
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