Posted on 08/10/2006 12:22:56 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
That's what Christians are told but the really odd thing is... everywhere else in the Gospels they (the assorted scholars and experts in the Law) have a serious comprehension problem. The Christian scholars are quick to point out the blindness of the Pharisees and other Jews, yet in such instances (where the Jews think/act as though Jesus is claiming to be Hashem), these same blind guides are suddenly so perceptive.
It's more consistent with their documented behavior to deduce that they did not understand what he was saying, and therefore thought he was a blasphemer.
This is definitely not the Christian God; but it is a God who is the "One" eternal god -- from whom sprang the Olympians (a second generation of gods in ancient Greece, who replaced Chronos and his associates of more primitive times) and all creation.... That in itself is quite a breakthrough. Plato, of course, never was able to say much about this god.
I assert that all of us Christians share in the direct revelation of God that Jesus Christ is Lord. The Truth of that declaration is not something which can be determined by reason (or teeth-gritting willfulness) alone.
[16] Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.Whereupon many of the Greeks believed: Jesus Christ as declared by Paul was the very fulfillment of their Unknown God, i.e., Plato's God of the Beyond.
[17] Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
[18] Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
[19] And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
[20] For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
[21] (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
[22] Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
[24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
[25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
[26] And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
[27] That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
[28] For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
This point of Greek metaphysics, and the Greek language itself, spread by Alexander in his conquests of a goodly part of the then-known world, facilitated the early propagation and dissemination of Christianity. In that sense, Plato was a sort of "forerunner" of Jesus -- not of the stature of "Malek," as was John Baptist; but one who nevertheless helped to prepare the way for Christ.
Thank you so much for writing, dear Alamo-Girl!
Here is another Scripture which supports your assertion:
Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name.
Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again. - John 12:20-28
Plus one more thing: the names "Philip" and "Andrew" both derive from Greek roots; i.e., these Apostles seem not to have been Jews, but Greeks (at least by culture).
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom. but the tares are the children of the wicked one
Vs.27-28 point out that the tares are growing with the wheat(believers).
So are 'tares' 'born again' because no one can see the Kingdom of God unless they are.(Jn.3:3)
There are certainly tares in the kingdom of heaven ... Not according to Matthew 13 as I have just demonstrated.
What you have demonstrated is your intention not to read the passage and than explain it away with double-talk.
The but is showing that the tares (which are growing with the wheat and thus are part of the kingdom of heaven-the world) are not of God but of Satan (Eph.2)
The kingdom of God is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field. But while the man slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.....The field is the world.
What part of those sentences do you not understand?
Now, you are correct that parables do not establish doctrines,but they do illustrate them.
Tares cannot grow in a spiritual kingdom because the spiritual kingdom is made up of only believers who have been 'born again'.
LOL!
Ofcourse there will be, if Ezekiel is to believed.
So, what do those verses really mean?
Here is the third temple, on earth as we speak:
"Ye as lively stones are built up, a spiritual house, an holy pristhood to offer up spiritual sacrifices (prayers), acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" - 1 Peter 1:5
= = =
There's an inherent assumption in that assertion which the whole counsel of SCRIPTURE DOES NOT support.
The ASSUMption is that it's impossible, arbitrarily not so etc. for God to talk about Believers being temples of Holy Spirit on the one hand . . .
WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST diminishment of any Scriptural or other truths about the Israelite physical temples.
Such arbitrary ASSUMptions are common in Holland--but the wise ignore them.
Thanks for the pings to your wonderful posts. Much appreciated.
Thanks for the ping and your excellent points.
There are very real differences in how the world is now and how it will be when Christ reigns as King over it.
Now, Christ's role is High Priest.(Heb.7-10)
When He was first on earth, it was as Prophet (De.18:18-19)
In the future, it will be as King.(Rev.19)
They are not for the individual, nor is the day of Atonement repeated (representing Christ's death on the Cross).
What the sacrifices are for is fellowship.
Just as we confess our sins (1Jn.1:9) to get back on fellowship, they will have sacrifices for national fellowship with the King.
Do not forget that the Kingdom of Heaven is made up of sinners in flesh and blood bodies, many who reject Christ as King (Ps.2), which will be made evident when they revolt after Satan is released to stir up rebellion.
So now we are only arguing about how much it is divided, not if it is divided!
As for Romans 6:14, classical dispensationalism has never abused that verse.
So far as 6:14 is concerned, is there anyone who doesn't see 2 of something mentioned there....dispensations, covenants, words, thoughts...something?
Thank you so much, Quix, for your kind words!
Sorry, these are artificially contrived by selective prooftexting. Please give us every verse where Christ is spoken of in His various offices and exegete them for us.
Let's see, Christ is presently exectuing His kingly office because we know He is seated on His throne in heaven reigning over the nations, making them a footstool (Matt. 27:11; 1 Cor. 15:; Heb. 12:2; Rev. 3:21). He is executing His prophetic office because He speaks to us though His written word by the power of His Spirit (John 16:13; Heb. 1:1,2). And He executing His priestly office after the order of Melchizedek (Heb. 6:20).
It's really quite simple if one doesn't have to go hacking things up "dispensationally" in order to deny Christ His proper place.
It's really quite simple if one doesn't have to go hacking things up "dispensationally" in order to deny Christ His proper place.
= = = =
The DISPENSATIONAL perspective merely
"allows" GOD TO BE GOD and to do things in the sequence, style, mode, nature, method(s) and manner HE HAS CHOSEN TO DO THEM IN.
We don't insist that God had or has to do things according to our microscopic, tidy, ob-com, white little prissy boxes of our own theology and private interpretations.
We are blessed to enjoy the richness of God's majesty and Glory AS HE chooses to display them in the diversity of ways that he chooses to emphasize in whatever mixtures for which ever eras are being looked at.
We take pleasure in noting that WHILE GOD IS CHANGELESS; CHANGES NOT . . . AND IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER
IT IS ALSO TRUE
THAT HE IS THE PARAGON of creativity and DELIGHTS in doing NEW THINGS seemingly all the time--or old things in new ways.
Sometimes, I think one of His priority goals in that is
TO KEEP THE RELIGIOUS PHARISEE TYPES OF FOLKS AND THAT IN ALL OF US WHICH WOULD EXALT ITSELF AGAINST HIM--
TO KEEP THAT SORT OF FORCE, COMPONENT, TRAIT IN MAN
KNOCKED KATTYWUMPUSS, off kilter, discomboobahlated etc. so that the FRESH WIND OF HOLY SPIRIT can blow through the individuals and groups all the better and all the FREE-ER.
Otherwise, that plague of !!!RELIGION!!!! in all it's starchy deadliness sets in with a vengeance and proceeds to strong-arm inquisition everyone into an over emphasized to wholesale and outrageously WRONG set of notions and interpretations.
But I do have some compassion for Hollanders' compulsions toward tidy little boxes and all. Those dikes must be kept tidy to keep the fresh winds of the Holy Spirit and the North Sea out of their theological proof texts and turf wars.
Amen: Jesus Christ IS LORD - to the Glory of God the Father!
Philippians 2:6-11Christ is faithful as a Son over all of God's House!
Contemporary English Version (CEV)Christ was truly God.
But he did not try to remain equal with God.
Instead he gave up everything and became a slave,
when he became
like one of us.
Christ was humble.
He obeyed God
and even died
on a cross.
Then God gave Christ
the highest place
and honored his name
above all others.
So at the name of Jesus
everyone will bow down,
those in heaven, on earth,
and under the earth.
And to the glory
of God the Father
everyone will openly agree,
"Jesus Christ is LORD!"
My vision of God is dependent upon the condition of my character. My character determines whether or not truth can even be revealed to me. Before I can say, "I saw the Lord," there must be something in my character that conforms to the likeness of God. Until I am born again and really begin to see the kingdom of God, I only see from the perspective of my own biases. What I need is God’s surgical procedure— His use of external circumstances to bring about internal purification.I've been meditating upon such things lately and posted some thoughts here. This morning I meditated long here:
Job 34:21-33
(New American Standard Bible)
[I prefer the New Revised Standard Version here, but can't find a link online]21 "For His eyes are upon the ways of a man,
And He sees all his steps.
22 "There is no darkness or deep shadow
Where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.
23 For He does not need to consider a man further,
That he should go before God in judgment.
24 He breaks in pieces mighty men without inquiry,
And sets others in their place.
25 Therefore He knows their works,
And He overthrows them in the night, And they are crushed.
26 He strikes them like the wicked
In a public place,
27 Because they turned aside from following Him,
And had no regard for any of His ways;
28 So that they caused the cry of the poor to come to Him,
And that He might hear the cry of the afflicted--
29 When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
That is, in regard to both nation and man?--
30 So that godless men would not rule
Nor be snares of the people.
31 For has anyone said to God,
'I have borne chastisement;
I will not offend anymore;
32 Teach me what I do not see;
If I have done iniquity,
I will not do it again'?
33 Shall He recompense on your terms, because you have rejected it?
For you must choose, and not I;
Therefore declare what you know."
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