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Who Really Stands with Israel?
American Vision ^ | 6/07/2006 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 08/07/2006 6:18:10 AM PDT by topcat54

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To: Wolfstar

Agreed. See my post #6


41 posted on 08/07/2006 4:07:04 PM PDT by Binghamton_native
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To: 1000 silverlings
No Jew is saved because he is a Jew. But I know people who say "Why worry? I'm in the tribe."

Then they are lost.

No one is going to be saved without faith in Christ.

42 posted on 08/07/2006 4:08:04 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration

lol. From what I understand, there are about 5 groups of "Jews" in Israel, the black Ethiopians and Christians on the bottom. Oh well, the last shall be first.


43 posted on 08/07/2006 4:10:24 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Then they are lost. No one is going to be saved without faith in Christ.,

But God has blinded them. Now what?

44 posted on 08/07/2006 4:23:24 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: topcat54
Supporting Israel will cause Armageddon?

Maybe we should help Israel's enemies destroy not just two thirds of the Israelis but all the Israelis. Then there would be no more Israel at all and Armageddon will be averted. Right?

45 posted on 08/07/2006 4:25:32 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: fortheDeclaration
Then they are lost.

Ya Ya, lost, blind, enemies of God, screwed, etc., etc., etc., Don't you ever tire of doing God's job for him?

No one is going to be saved without faith in Christ

Ya right. Nobody is going to be saved unless they believe like you do. I think people should let Jews interpret their own writings. They've been doing it 2,000 more years than all of you Johny-come-lately's.

46 posted on 08/07/2006 4:36:22 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; fortheDeclaration

The Torah Jews interpret their own writings. No one is stopping them. The ones who toss the word out and do their own speaking go another direction.


47 posted on 08/07/2006 4:41:14 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: 1000 silverlings
The Torah Jews interpret their own writings. No one is stopping them. The ones who toss the word out and do their own speaking go another direction.

Not understanding your response.

48 posted on 08/07/2006 4:44:43 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: topcat54; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Buggman
Don't you tire of posting these eschatological threads?

I have no problem with P-M's question, but mine has always been, "Why do you have to post dispensational threads so you can be against them?"

Why not post some brief synopsis of preterism and show us what you are for?

Do preterists not post what they stand for because (1) they're embarrassed to say, (2) because they don't know, (3) because it's too hard to explain, (4) etc.

49 posted on 08/07/2006 4:47:43 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: fortheDeclaration
A Jew today who receives Christ becomes a Christian is no longer considered a Jew

I don't think they can stop being Jewish anymore than the Apostle Paul stopped being Jewish. As you quoted, he said, "My kinsmen after the flesh."

Paul was both Jewish and Christian.

50 posted on 08/07/2006 4:51:03 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; HarleyD
A Jew today who receives Christ becomes a Christian is no longer considered a Jew

I have to agree with xzins. What God considers a Jew is not what mankind does, right?

51 posted on 08/07/2006 4:54:05 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: 1000 silverlings
I have to agree with xzins. What God considers a Jew is not what mankind does, right?

Have you ever considered asking Jews what they consider to be Jewish? Logic 101.

52 posted on 08/07/2006 4:57:35 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; xzins; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; P-Marlowe

Yes, they say as long as they are in the tribe, they need not worry about salvation, they're already saved. Is that right, or not?


53 posted on 08/07/2006 4:59:45 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: 1000 silverlings; P-Marlowe; fortheDeclaration; Buggman; blue-duncan

I think God considers Jews (those kinsmen after the flesh) to be Jews.

There is discussion of "an Israel of God," but that is clearly a metaphor. The same with those who are Jews "inwardly."

They have legitimate spiritual meaning when they are used, but they do not negate the existence of those who are "Jews after the flesh." The presence of these racial Jews makes it necessary to consider some or all prophecies as relating to their group and not to the church.

It is possible that:

(1) All "Israel" prophecies relate only to the church.

(2) All "Israel" prophecies relate only to racial Israel.

(3) Some relate to the Church and some relate to racial Israel.

Time will tell, of course, but one would be negligence not to ponder the fact that racial Israel is again occupying their ancestral land.


54 posted on 08/07/2006 5:01:41 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
I don't think the bible teaches that, after all, the descendents of Abraham are not all Jews, only the Seed is.

Being Jewish is a spiritual condition, we learn that from Abraham. In Exodus, many so called Jews were destroyed for being only in the flesh.

55 posted on 08/07/2006 5:05:36 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: 1000 silverlings

The bible teaches that there are both racial Jews and what we call "spiritual" Jews.

Everyone falls into one of the 3 categories above. Which are you?


56 posted on 08/07/2006 5:10:29 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
There is no "race" of Jews. DNA tests show that Arabs and semitic Jews are all Semites. Being Jewish is a spiritual condition. I am a baptized, born again Bible-believing Christian, therefore, also a spiritual Jew.
57 posted on 08/07/2006 5:14:01 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (2341 - 2 is divisible by 341 even though 341 = 31 11 is composite)
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To: xzins; fortheDeclaration
Paul was both Jewish and Christian.

Jewish by heritage.

Christian by faith.

58 posted on 08/07/2006 5:37:31 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luke 24:45)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Buggman; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan

I suppose you realize you're denying scholarly history to say that there is no "race of Jews."

Go here to these sites at UC Davis and Fordham Univ.:
http://philo.ucdavis.edu/zope/home/bruce/RST23/chart.html#325-1517


http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/jewishsbook.html


59 posted on 08/07/2006 5:38:25 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: HarleyD

Actually, Jewish by heritage and religion.

A Christian Jew by grace.

Jesus was Jewish.


60 posted on 08/07/2006 5:39:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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