The Accidental Catholic

I see her as someone who really did have a physical malady.

I agree that all the episodes of Christ healing reflect medical realities, but I am certain that they also reflect the spiritual realities, because Christ came to heal souls, and healing of bodies came as an accessory to that. To the ancient mind the distinction was non-existent: body was soul and disease was sin. So, Christ here does not merely teach us "what to do when we are hurting", He is teaching us what to do to be saved.

If you mean what I would call sanctification, then I am with you. But in the context of the woman, you appear to be saying that she did not have "true" (formed) faith until she did the "work" of touching Jesus' garment. If so, then works are necessary before initial salvational status?

In this episode obviously she had faith (v28) before touching the garment. But healing did not happen till she actually touched it. This shows that faith and works are like the two legs of a walker, one forwards the other.

In infant Baptism, my understanding is that the benefits of the work by the parents are accorded to the child and he is initially saved. But is the actual credit for doing the "work" also accorded to the child? I could see someone (parent) giving away the benefits of his own work, but I don't see how one (baby) could take credit for the work of another.

We certainly can do work that spiritually benefits the other, that is the Catholic belief. For example, St. Paul, while considering himself spiritually secure ("I have finished the race") ocnsidered his suffering beneficial for the Church, and he did mean fellow believers by that:

all the creation that is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church: 25 Whereof I am made a minister according to the dispensation of God, which is given me towards you (Col. 23-25)

The paradigm of that is, of course, Jesus himself, Who did not need any of the benefit His work on the Cross provided us.

what caused the woman to seek out Christ? For me, as a Reformer, the truly important matter is not that I chose (sought after) Christ, but that He chose me first

Exactly so. What caused the woman to seek out Christ? Why, Christ did, -- He crossed the sea another time to meet them.

The realization that Christ chooses before we do is important as we reflect about infant baptism, where Christ meets the infant before the infant meets Christ.

So, Christ here does not merely teach us "what to do when we are hurting", He is teaching us what to do to be saved.

I'm not sure I can buy it in this particular case, but you make a valid argument. I agree with what you said earlier in that disease was commonly associated with guilt or sin at the time. This was especially true of leprosy. But now we know "better", and do not make that sort of connection automatically (although I would never throw out the possibility on a case by case basis). So, if you are with me so far, and knowing what you know now, how would you reconcile that with the ancient belief? IOW, do you think that the woman was riddled with sin and thus stricken for years and years because that would have been a common conclusion made by others at the time, or do you think she really was stricken because of sin, independently of what other people thought at the time? If you say she was stricken, do you think that many sicknesses or maladies today are the result of sin?

In this episode obviously she had faith (v28) before touching the garment. But healing did not happen till she actually touched it.

OK, this goes to what our views of "healing" are, and more importantly, what "faith" is, as the article you showed me pointed out.

We certainly can do work that spiritually benefits the other, that is the Catholic belief.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. Every time my pastor does the work of preparing and delivering his sermon, I benefit spiritually from it. In your Paul example, he suffered and was ultimately martyred. That was of great spiritual benefit to the Church because it both inspired and focused people towards Christ. "What is this mystery that Paul gave his life for?" I don't understand how this compares with infant Baptism because in your example, the benefits were that people LEARNED something. Obviously babies can't do that.

What you say about Jesus is true, but the benefits of His sacrifice were much more significantly supernatural. Do you mean that the benefits of Paul's sacrifice were partially supernatural? Anyone else's?

do you think that many sicknesses or maladies today are the result of sin?

Not at all, I think they very often are opportunities to turn to God and so vehicles of grace. "God loved me so much, He gae me cancer" is a very valid turn of thought.

in your example, the benefits were that people LEARNED something. Obviously babies can't do that.

We learned nothing from Paul's "thorn". If anything, it probably prevented him to teach more (for example, he depended on secretaries to write). So, while learning from others' work is one example, it is not the only scenario. There is also a supernatural benefit that we derive from the Christian martyrs, for example, even if we are unaware of them. Likewise, a baby benefits from the prayers of the Church, because they direct the gaze of Christ toward the baby, if I may wax poetic for a minute.

Jairus's daughter did not know Jairus interceded for her.

Not at all, I think they very often are opportunities to turn to God and so vehicles of grace. "God loved me so much, He gave me cancer" is a very valid turn of thought.

I agree. I just hope I don't have to prove it. :)

We learned nothing from Paul's "thorn".

Well, I learned through a very concrete example that His grace is sufficient for me, and that I have no right to blame God for when I'm hurting. I've actually thought of that passage when I was tempted to sin in my mind by feeling sorry for myself, etc.

Jairus's daughter did not know Jairus interceded for her.

And I accept the daughter's excuse. See what a nice guy I am? :) I do agree that people benefit from the prayers of others. I pray for missionaries I will never meet all the time and I hope it does some good for them. So, I think I see better what you are saying.

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