Posted on 02/15/2006 6:22:47 AM PST by NYer
If this is a listing of His cousins why isn't John the Baptist mentioned here?
Who said the list was cousins and who said it was an exhaustive list?
My post is 2061. Please identify for me which Jameses are the blood half-brother of Jesus and tell me when he displaces James the Lesser.
SD
Actually he's never claimed the "protestant" banner.
In other words, the box inscription counts against both the Roman Catholic cousin theory and the Orthodox theory that they are children of Joseph by prior marriage.
Assuming the box isn't a forgery:
First, you should note that the inscription says son of Joseph, not son of Mary.
Second, the names James, Joseph, and Jesus were very common during this period and you would have to prove the names on the box refer to the people of interest. When this box came out, there was an analysis done based on the population of Jerusalem at the time of about 80,000 and the commonality of these names and it was estimated about 20 people could be called "James son of Joseph brother of Jesus."
Third, you'd have to prove the word brother, as used here, meant from the same womb.
James, the brother of Jesus was not appointed until after the death of Jesus.
This James: Acts 15:13: After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me.
And this James: Galatians 1:19: "But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother."
If you have so much time on your hands plough through this stuff.
Post 2061. Can you address it or not? I pulled every single instance where "James" is referenced in the New Testament. I want to get to the bottom of this. Which of the Jameses mentioned in Scripture are James the "brother of the Lord" and when does he become an Apostle? (And what did he do with James the Lesser?)
SD
Of course not. It's only the Bible. Why should we examine it when we are talking about religion?
James, the brother of Jesus was not appointed until after the death of Jesus.
OK. Where is this captured in Scripture?
This James: Acts 15:13: After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me.
OK. The Apostles are listed in Acts 1. There are two Jameses the "James and John" one and the "son of Alphaeus" one.
In Acts 12 we learn that the "James and John" James is killed. That leaves one James.
What makes you think the James in Acts 15 is some other James and not the one already an Apostle and already introduced in the narrative?
Does that make any sense that a brand new character is introduced without mention?
SD
But alas it is not proven to be a forgery. By your logic then the Shroud of Turin is a forgery - scientific dating has shown it to be of Renaissance dating. Should the Catholic Church be arrested for perpetrating this fraud on the world? The ossuary on the other hand was tested and the patina was shown to has been of first century origin.
It. Doesn't. Matter.
We all know what the words are. The idea is to find out what they meant, and what the relationships really were. Written on stone or written on parchment. It. Doesn't. Matter.
The whole ossuary thing has been a red herring from day one.
Now, about post 2061...
SD
Since you claim not to be a Literalist, you'll be happy to know this can be found in the Psuedoclementines. :-)
Believe in it if you wish, but the antiquities experts have had their say.
The ossuary on the other hand was tested and the patina was shown to has been of first century origin.
Please read the article I linked. The box may be genuine but the inscription is not. There is also a fake patina applied, which you can read about in the caption of the first photo.
Fake or not, you still have to address the 3 points I noted to prove that this James is who you think he is, i.e. the natural born son of Mary, mother of Jesus Christ.
The inscription was what was tested for the patina. The patina was in accord with a first century dating. The Shroud on the other hand was dated from the Renaissance period.
How can that be? The Catholic church tells us that Constantine's mother Helen went to Jerusalem and found the shroud herself while artifact hunting. She also found a piece of wood (obviously petrified by now) and some nails from Jesus' cross. :-)
Wow. I've always been able to go to the New Advent site and find the PsuedoClementines under the category "church fathers". This time they weren't on the list. Did they put them somewhere else or take them off the site entirely?
Can you not read:
Whether the patina is fake or not, you still have to address the 3 points I noted to prove that this James is who you think he is, i.e. the natural born son of Mary, mother of Jesus Christ.
"That said, I agree private interpretation can be misleading, even dangerous. Of course blindly accepting the interpretation of others can be just as dangerous."
_____________________________
I would agree.
The James ossuary was proven to be a fraud. Unless something has changed in the last 3 or 4 years.
That's not true either.
If James is, as some of you suggest, the blood brother of Jesus and an Apostle or the very least a follower of Christ, WHY did he give care of His mother to John, a non-relative?
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