Posted on 02/06/2006 1:02:10 PM PST by NYer
I'm not interested in your point-of-view. Only God's point-of-view matters. He says nothing in His Word about obeying Rome, but He does have a few choice words about the matter at hand, some of which I have already shared, and more about raising tradition above Scripture. That was the major issue Yeshua contended with the Pharisees over, in fact.
The same Church that has been given the very power of God to "bind and loose".
Binding and loosing does not extend to changing or annuling the commands of Scripture, as I explain in detail here.
So therefore, if the (Roman Catholic) Church says it is OK to venerate images of the saints, then the RCC is in the same position of the Pharisees who, also having the due authority to bind and loose, ran afoul of Yeshua for using that authority to nullify God's Word.
You're not paying attention. TexConfederate1861 is not Catholic. He is Orthodox Christian.
"...to come back and answer and rebut numerous posts, especially when we all just seem to go round and round,..."
I've often thought that having discussions on FR is very similar to leaning your head out the window and trying to have a conversation with someone on a passing train.
I believe Wikipedia would also be considered impartial. Here is another snippet from me I guess you did not read the first one as it said the majority of his work was completed in Bethlehem...just as this one says. See the last four paragraphs of the "LIFE" section.
That's O.K. Sandy....we still all love you just the same. Blessings to you and yours. Diego
"[Yeshua] said to them, 'All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition'" (Mark 7:9).
You are correct. My apologies. Take out "Rome" and insert "Constantinople" and replace "Roman Catholic" with "Eastern Orthodox" then; the point remains the same:
Nobody has the authority to overturn a command given directly from the mouth of God. "Binding and loosing" only gives one the authority to show how to apply the Torah (and by extension, the rest of the Scriptures), not to change or ignore the least letter.
Bill Watterson does have a way of cutting to the chase while making you laugh, doesn't he? :)
I greatly appreciate your humility and softspokeness. Don't worry about not always having the time; I've had to drop out of many a debate on FR for lack of it.
God bless.
WOW! Amen!
On a separate subject, I thought it was interesting that the author didn't mention Jerome's counsel about the "deuterocanonical" books (which he did include in his Vulgate) being acceptable as models of conduct and faith, but shouldn't be used as a basis for doctrine.
[I haven't read all the replies yet; so if this was already brought up and/or discussed, my apologies!]
This is as amusing as someone saying, "If the King James Version was good enough for Paul, it should be good enough for us!"
"And in the Acts of the Apostles, Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to Peter!"
Please give the scriptural referance in the book of Acts where Christ gives the keys to the kingdom to Peter. In case you are having a hard time finding it, try looking in Matt 16. But don't stop there. Go on to Matt 18 and see where Jesus gives the same authority to the rest of the apostles.
Not at all, and that's a completely illogical stretch.
Conversely, by denying that the Torah remains God's eternal standard, you call Him a liar when He says, "I am YHVH, I do not change" (Mal. 3:6) and "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" (Num. 23:19).
You further call Him a liar when He says, "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one yod (the smallest Hebrew letter) or one tittle (i.e,. the least penstroke will by no means pass from the Torah till all is fulfilled" (Mat. 5:18). Either that, or you think that Heaven and Earth passed away sometime when we weren't looking.
There were only three changes to the Torah:
1) Gentiles with circumcised hearts are given equal brotherhood with born Jews in God's promises (Eph. 2:13-22), even in the eating of the Passover (1 Cor. 5:7-8).There was indeed a change in the universe in the Incarnation and the Cross, but it is not the change you imagine . . . and God did not change the universe just to wink at bowing to statues--Israel's chiefmost sin, for which it was first split, and then sent into exile fore--after doing so.2) Yeshua HaMashiach, the King of the line of Y'hudah, has been given the High Priesthood over the sons of Levi (Heb. 8-10).
3) The curse of the Torah--that is, the curses it pronounces against those who break its commands (Deu. 27-28)--have all fallen on Yeshua at the Cross, so that we who are truly in Him need not fear the penalties for failing to keep it all perfectly (Gal. 3:13--so much for Purgatory!). Thus, the Torah has lost its punative power as the Law of God, but retains its authority as the Teachings (a better translation of Torah) of God.
"Please give the scriptural referance in the book of Acts where Christ gives the keys to the kingdom to Peter."
Are you thinking my statement regarding the keys is supported or undermined by the passages you reference?
(BTW: nice personal note on your About page!)
You need to check out the references. But you will not find a record of Christ giving Peter any keys in Acts.
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