Posted on 01/29/2006 5:25:55 AM PST by NYer
The Church is the Body of Christ; only those incorporated into her, that is, into Christ, can be saved:
"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." (St. Mark 16:16) "Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (St. John 3:5) "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you." (St. John 6:54) "He is the saviour of his body." (Eph. 5:23)
The Church, as the mystical body of Christ, is the historical continuation of Christ's temporal mission. How can you affirm that it does not save? In fact, it is the divinely-established means of salvation for all men: "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (St. Matthew 28:19) They are saved through the preaching of the Word of God, the administration of the seven Sacraments, the sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ, and all the other means of sanctification given to the Church by her divine Founder. She is the visible society in which the sins of men are remitted through the grace of Christ, in which men are strengthened for the trials of daily life, in short, the social organism through which Christ continues to work his redemption in men today:
"Grant to us, we beg, O Lord,
to make frequent use of these mysteries worthily,
for, as often as the commemoration of this sacrifice is celebrated,
the work of our redemption is carried on." (Second Sunday in Ordinary Time, Prayer over the Gifts, lit. trans.)
Good question. Now where would you point to in scripture where it says that a specific authority must be granted in order for one to come up with an interpretation of scripture? And for that matter, where does it state that your Magisterium has been granted such authority? Try reading Psalms 119 where over and over the individual is instructed to read and meditate on the Holy Word. Or are you saying that doesn't’t mean anything and the Bible shouldn't’t be read and meditated upon and should only be accepted as one is fed portions from your Magisterium? What scripture supports that?
I'd be pretty doggone careful if you want to be talking about 'authority' as Christ so adroitly points out. Luke 20:2 'And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?.............8 And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.'
Born again thru Baptism?.. You must be a Baptist?.. but then the Baptists don't believe that..
What club to you belong to?..
Beati qui non viderunt
Vitam Aeternam habebunt
I have a question that I respectfully would like to know the answer to:
When in Church history was it determined that the Pope is the sole interpreter of scripture?
Thank you for your time...
God's Blessings to you and yours...
No ... not the Baptists; through the Sacrament of Baptism.
Greetings in Christ.
Respectfully two questions I would like to pose to you for your perspective:
Is not Christ the head of the body (the Church)? See Ephesians 5:22-33.
How can there be simultaneously two heads to the Body in Christ and Rome?
Thank you for your time...Blessings to you and yours!
My poor,uneducated FR colleague...
We do the foot washing...every year. Baptism with the Holy Spirit and Fire...that's called Baptism and Confirmation.
Read up and research before shooting off your mouth...that is, your keyboard.
Catholics believe that men are reborn to life through the Sacrament of Baptism.
"Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: 'Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word.' ...
This sacrament is also called 'the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit,' for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one 'can enter the kingdom of God.'" Catechism of the Catholic Church, §§ 1213, 1215
You responded: The indwelling Spirit of God. Everyone who becomes Christian is born anew (John 3) - and the Spirit Himself authenticates the Scriptures by bringing the words alive within us.
That's a nice theory on paper. However, it will not convince anyone who doesn't already a priori hold the view that the Bible is from God. The fact of the matter is that Joseph Smith ALSO claimed that the Spirit indwelled within him to tell us that the Book of Mormons was written by God. If you have ever dealt with Mormons in apologetics, be prepared to hear this argument, which is entirely subjective - not objective.
I'm sorry, but what you describe as the "Spirit" is not enough to determine the Canon of Scriptures. You are arguing in a circle, quite frankly. Such a subjective authority (the "voice" within you) is not how God tells us what is His Word.
Regards
Pretty obvious this one exited BEFORE any of the others eh?!
Brother, those are easily swept away if you believed that Christ left a group (called apostles) authority to preach and teach the Gospel, guaranteeing that Holy Spirit would preserve this body of teachings for all time against the gates of hell. It is easy to believe if you see in the Pastorals the first generation of Apostles passing the "torch" to the next generation. Once that step is made, the rest is cake... (at least for me, it was). Once I got there, I knew that my faith had to precede my understanding of such doctrines - in time, I would come to understand the "why" of the Immaculate Conception, etc.
Regards
Every human ever born is born of "the water".. not all are born of the spirit though.. Seems you have a lot to learn of immersion.. which the word that is translated in english as baptism.. Besides that baptism (christian wise) is a ceremonial burial of the "old man".. not the reality of the birth of the "new man".. With an open mind, on this, you might be heartily encouraged.. a closed one will harden you, further..
See #155..
Just look at me as your own little reclamation project. :>)
Actually the quote does "not" say born again of water and the spirit.....it says, born of water and the spirit.
Verse 3 says a man must be born again to see the kingdom of God......but notice verse 7-8. It says, [You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit.]
All men are born of water....at birth....not all men will be born of the spirit, but if you are begotten of the spirit you will be visible.....but born of the spirit you will be unseen. [2 Corinthians 4:18].
Not true.. I personally know of several people that never read the bible or had any dealings with those that did. yet, met the the most high God out in the bush.. Subsequently finding their way to other Christian's for fellowship, eventially.. And fit right in..
The Body of Christ is NOT a club.. or a University.. its not what you know its who you are..
My favorite Catholics by far are Patrick and Francis. I have a soft spot for Aiden.
Fenelon was my devotional guide for years, and then in a military move from the states to Europe, I lost my tattered little Fenelon book. I've never been able to replace it.
I've looked and no one has those letters or not in that completeness.
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