Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)

Zenit News Agency ^ | January 16, 2006 | Ilaria Morali

[Rutles4Ever]

Could you explain how God willed for Adam and Eve to sin, to sully paradise?

[P-Marlowe]

For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Romans 5:17-21 KJV)

[SoothingDave]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19 KJV)

Do you believe in three gods or one? Is Jesus human or divine? How many natures does he have? Is the Holy Spirit a person?

The term "Trinity" encompasses a greater set of understanding than just a list of names. Do you affirm what orthodox Christianity has meant by "Trinity" or not?

SD

[P-Marlowe]

Do you believe in three gods or one?

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Isaiah 44:6 KJV)

Is Jesus human or divine?

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 KJV)

How many natures does he have?

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Is the Holy Spirit a person?

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26 KJV)

[xzins]

Is faith necessary for salvation

Yes. The bible says, "Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God."

[SoothingDave]

How many natures does he have?

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

This isn't an answer to the question.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

This contradicts your answer above. If the Lord does not change, how can he be made flesh? Isn't that a change?

See, here is the main problem with this type of questioning. You can't answer it because you apparently believe it to be erroneous or sinful to try to think about what Scripture means in any systematic way. (Which contradicts, of course, the insistence on systematically using predestination to understand everything.) Just posting verses out of context doesn't answer the questions posed.

SD

[P-Marlowe]

This isn't an answer to the question.... If the Lord does not change, how can he be made flesh? Isn't that a change?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)

[Buggman]

You can't answer it because you apparently believe it to be erroneous or sinful to try to think about what Scripture means in any systematic way.

LOL He don't know you vewwwy well, do he?

[SoothingDave]

This isn't an answer to the question.... If the Lord does not change, how can he be made flesh? Isn't that a change?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)

Would you like to try for a third time to answer the question? Apparently you have a reputation of being able to answer questions in an intelligble fashion. I'd like to see for myself.

SD

[P-Marlowe]

The thread seems to have suddenly taken a different direction. The thread is on whether or not faith is necessary for salvation. You seem to have taken it on a side track into the nature of God and the trinity. So at this point I will inteject an objection that the questions you posed beginning on post 43 are irrelevant.

Can we get back to the topic at hand?

[SoothingDave]

Can we get back to the topic at hand?

I suppose. As long as you don't repeat your insinuation that a word must appear in Scripture verbatim for it to be a true idea which can be gleaned from Scripture.

SD

[Diego1618]

The thread is on whether or not faith is necessary for salvation

This has always been my favorite verse for showing just what is necessary for everlasting life....don't hear it quoted much.

In the Greek so there can be no misunderstanding. John 6:28-29, [They said therefore to him, "What do we that we may work the works of God"? "Answered Jesus and said to them, "This is the work of God: that ye should believe on Him whom sent He."

From the mouth of the Lord..... and further down in verse 40 in plain English, ["For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.]

[armydoc]

When Mother Teresa died, her longtime friend and biographer Naveen Chawla said that he once asked her bluntly, "Do you convert?" She replied, "Of course I convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu or a better Muslim or a better Protestant. Once you've found God, it's up to you to decide how to worship him" ("Mother Teresa Touched other Faiths," Associated Press, Sept. 7, 1997).

"those cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." - Vat II


My, was Mother Theresa (now St. Theresa) wise! Why try to convert a "good" muslim or hindu, giving them a chance to reject it? After all, they are just fine on the path they have chosen, right?

[HarleyD]

"It is that some of these may be saved through the working of God's grace, though intellectual facts about Jesus may not be known to one's mind. Can you see the difference?"

What I see is one who would deny that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.

Don't you believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases?

I believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases and He does that through His word. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.

[HarleyD]

Are you subscribing to the necessity of "works" all of a sudden?

You are saved by faith and your works are evidences of your faith. If you don't have faith in Christ you don't have any works.

Joh 6:28-29 Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

""Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." -- Romans 3:27-28

[Zuriel]

**KJV Bible Search
"Trinity"
Find verses containing phrase
Search Range
Entire Bible
0 verses found**

You're right about that, sir.

[Zuriel]

**Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(Matthew 28:19 KJV)**

Note: "....in the name...." (singular).

Jesus said: "I am come in my Father's NAME,.." John 5:43
I think it's more than obvious what the NAME of the Son is.
Jesus said: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my NAME,.." John 14:26

That's why Peter and the rest of the apostles didn't repeat a command, they obeyed it, baptizing in the name of Jesus, all through the book of Acts.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Faith in God requires faith in what he says, which requires acting upon it.

Believing in Jesus is more than of his existance, it is also his words (example: "ye must be born again") There is no way to separate him from his words.

Faith, faith, faith, just a little bit of faith........
(be back in a couple days)

[HarleyD]

So you're saying that man has no free will since it's not in the KJV? Unbelievable.

Do you pray for guidance? Do you pray for wisdom? Do you pray for God's leading? Do you pray for others salvation? Do you pray for God's help in times of trouble?

Why? You have a free will. Go ahead and use it.

[SoothingDave]

"It is that some of these may be saved through the working of God's grace, though intellectual facts about Jesus may not be known to one's mind. Can you see the difference?"

What I see is one who would deny that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.

Look again. "Through the working of God's grace" means because of the work of Jesus the Christ.

Do you believe children/infants and the mentally handicapped are destined for hell because they can not intellectualize a belief in the substitutionary atonement of Christ?

Don't you believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases?

I believe God is sovereign and He can save whom He pleases

Except

He does that through His word. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Harley, the "word of God" is Jesus, not the Bible. Common mistake.

SD