Posted on 01/15/2006 2:37:14 PM PST by NYer
I've heard of the Apocrypha, but the pseudepigrapha doesn't ring a bell.
Most university religion classes seem to be anti-Christian IMO. Never took one, don't plan to, but have several friends that did...
I KNOW he's refering to the Deuterocanonical Apocrypha/Septuagint books but unfortunatly because the Protestants use the latin word Apocrypha he's convinced that they are the gnostic texts (which usually get this name), and because Apocrypha is Latin he's convinced that it's a Roman attempt to teach false writings (one way to interpret the word apocrypha).
Problem is there's no way to talk him out of it.
The last thing in the world I would do is try to patronize you. I am correcting you on your false interpretation.
The very first words of the chapter are, [Him that is weak in faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. KJV] The more modern International Version says, [Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.]
Now, do you think the Apostle would actually call the "Day of Rest of The Lord" a disputable matter. No! He would not. He is talking about fast days (singular or plural) and eating or not eating meat. These are the matters of opinion and Paul is saying in verse 3, ["The man who eats everything must not look down upon him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does..] Verse 5, ["One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind."] Please read my post #5 again.
Just how in the world you get the idea that Paul is speaking about Sabbath days here completely escapes me. I can only guess that in your zeal to attempt to show that the Sabbath that Paul and the Apostles all celebrated, the Seventh Day, was done away with and this is one of your convoluted verses attempting to show that.
In the Maronite (Eastern) Catholic Church, the Sacrament of Confession is offered up to 1/2 hour before each weekend liturgy. For those who do not avail themselves of this weekly opportunity, the pastor offers 2x year Penance Service. It opens with this hymn:
I yearn for your pardon, O Lord,
Give me tears to repent in this Advent (or Lent) season.
Lord have mercy.
I beg for your favors, O Lord,
For your mercy I thirst, for your kindness and love.
Lord have mercy.
Against you, O Lord, I have sinned,
Hear the cry of my voice, turn your ear to my prayer.
Lord have mercy.
O wash me O Lord from my guilt,
Purify me and I shall be whiter than snow.
Lord forgive me.
The celebrant then leads us through a series of prayers and responses, followed by 2 readings and the Gospel. The readings for Advent are Baruch 5:1-9 and Phillippians 1:3-6, 8-11. The gospel is Luke 6:27-38. After Father's homily (and he gives very orthodox ones), we proceed with an examination of conscience, followed by private Confession.
As a Roman Catholic, I have found Confession in the Maronite Church to be more spiritual. I'm still in the habit of bringing a 'laundry list' to confession. The pastor smiles and then targets something that he perceives to be an obstacle to my spiritual growth. Sadly, Maronite Catholics, like their Latin cousins, do not avail themselves of Confession on a frequent basis. At the Christmas Vigil liturgy, I was intrigued to see a 'homosexual couple' who are good friends with one of the families, in attendance. They didn't even attempt to go up to communion. (Father no doubt read them the riot act long ago).
This is a very rich and beautiful Sacrament. In other Eastern Churches, the priest may lay his stole on the penitent's head and/or confession is done before an icon. If you have never experienced the Sacrament of Reconciliation in the East, you should give it a try.
I forgot to mention the priest putting the stole on the confessors head.
I forgot to mention the priest putting the stole on the confessors head.
Here's a somewhat lengthy summary of the ROCOR practice:
Orthodox America
Church Rules for Confession and Holy Communion
By Priest Gregory Naumenko
"If thou desirest, O man, to eat the Body of the Master, approach with fear lest thou be burnt, for It is fire."
"Behold, I approach the Divine Communion. O Creator, let me not be burnt by communicating, for Thou art Fire consuming the unworthy." (From the Prayers Before Holy Communion)
Those who desire to have Confession and to commune of the Holy Mysteries must prepare properly, according to the rules instituted by the Holy Orthodox Church. Namely:
Those who desire to commune on Sunday must begin preparation from the previous Monday by at least being continually conscious of the fact that they are preparing to partake of the Most precious Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Explanation: In the 32nd chapter of the Typicon (book of church rules) we read: "When one desires to commune of the Holy Mysteries of Christ, it is most proper for him/her to keep properly the entire previous week; to remain in fasting, prayer and complete sobriety from the previous Monday; and then, with fear and great reverence, to receive the Most precious Mysteries.
Fast according to the rules of the Church.
Explanation: During the entire Great Lent and Dormition Fast, we do not partake of meat, eggs, milk and fish (Fish is allowed only on the days of Annunciation and Palm Sunday, and, during the Dormition Fast, on Transfiguration. During the entire Nativity Fast and Apostles; Fast, we do not partake of meat, eggs or milk. It is allowable to lessen the fast only in the case of severe illness, for small children, the feeble and elderly, and for women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.
Be present at and attentively participate in the evening services before the day of Holy Communion.
Explanation: Communion of the most pure Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is the highest form of communion with the Lord God. Communing is the completion, the culmination of our communion with God. If a person comes to the chalice without having gone through the struggle of prayer, through which he comes nearer to God, if he does not go through a process of ever-increasing interaction with God, then this leap, as it were, from noncommunion to the ultimate level of communion (i.e., Holy Communion) is too drastic. That person is unworthy at that point for the acceptance of the Body and Blood of the Lord, and for that person the Gifts become "fire, consuming the unworthy." In other words, for such a person, Communion brings not healing, but harm. This is why it is necessary to be at the Divine Services preceding Holy Communion, for they are one of the most important forms of interaction with God available to us, and thus an important component of our preparation.
Those preparing for Communion must have Confession before or following the service on the eve before Holy Communion. Confession before Liturgy is permissible only as an exception for those who cannot come in the evening because of the condition of their health or for some other justifiable reason.
Explanation: Since we must be in church on the eve of receiving Holy Communion, it is wise for us to have Confession at that time. In the evening there is no hurry; one can calmly and thoughtfully lay out one's thoughts. In the morning the priest is busy with the Proskomedia, and there is little time. Confession becomes hurried, incomplete. Only extreme need is cause enough to pull the priest away from the Proskomedia for morning Confession.
Read at home all the prescribed preparatory prayers out of the prayer book.
Explanation: One must definitely read "The Order of Preparation for Holy Communion" (found in the Jordanville Prayer Book).* Those who have not read these prayers should not partake of Holy Communion. The following should also be read before Holy Communion: 1) Supplicatory Canon to our Lord Jesus Christ 2) Supplicatory Canon to the Most Holy Theotokos 3) Canon to the Guardian Angel 4) Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ or Akathist to our Most Holy Lady Theotokos.
Ask forgiveness and reconcile yourself with everyone with whom you have had an argument, misunderstanding or any deterioration in relationship. By taking Communion without full reconciliation with everyone we do ourselves great harm.
Explanation: The Church exhorts us to be in peace with everyone through the following words which are written in the prayers preparing us for Holy Communion: "If thou desirest, O man, to eat the Body of the Mastery, approach with fear, lest thou be burnt; for It is fire. And when thou drinkest the Divine Blood unto communion, first be reconciled to them that have grieved thee, then dare to eat the Mystical Food."
One must approach the Mysteries without having eaten or drunk anything from midnight on.
Explanation: We prepare ourselves with fasting for the partaking of the Holy Gifts. The final period before Communion we intensify our abstention, and eat and drink nothing. Those who cannot do without certain medication may take it with Holy Water that morning. Small children may eat before Communion in the morning. The sick (for example, diabetics) and those who are weak can receive a blessing from their spiritual father (priest) to eat a small amount the morning of Communion.
In the morning, one must come before the beginning of the service, respectfully venerate the icons, light candles, find a spot to stand and be prepared for the beginning of the reading of the Hours. One must listen attentively to the Hours and then to the Divine Liturgy.
Explanation: The Hours are part of the cycle of services. They are also an important part of the process of preparation for Holy Communion for the same reason outlined above.
Men are forbidden to come to Communion with their heads covered, according to the strict edict of the holy Apostle Paul. Women are forbidden to come to Communion with their heads uncovered, according to the same Apostle. (These rules apply not only when receiving the Holy Mysteries but at all times inside the temple.)
Explanation: The Church follows the instruction of the Apostle Paul, who says in his first epistle to the Corinthians (II:4-5): Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth and prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head.
No one should take Holy Communion (or even come to church) with lipstick on.
Explanation: Besides the fact that such a practice is not becoming for God's House, how many pages of our churches' Holy Gospels have been ruined by kissing with painted lips. How many church vessels, crosses, spoons, have been treated the same way. Look at our icons at the end of a service. They are covered with lipstick smears. Even the Holy Shroud, the Body of Christ, Who suffered for us, has been marred with lipstick.
After receiving Holy Communion, one must stay and listen attentively to the thanksgiving prayers or diligently read them at home from the prayer book.
Explanation: In Holy Communion we receive a great gift from God. We express our gratitude for God's great act of mercy through these thanksgiving prayers.
At the end of the service, those who communed listen to the thanksgiving prayers and do not come up to venerate the Cross with everyone else. When the thanksgiving prayers are over, the Cross is brought out to the communicants for veneration.
Explanation: The people who have not taken Holy Communion come up to the Cross immediately and receive a piece of antidoron, as a consolation that they were unable to take Holy Communion at this Liturgy. The communicants, without interruption, listen to the thanksgiving prayers and then venerate the Cross, since they have partaken of the True Gifts and have no need to receive the antidoron (which means "in place of the Gifts").
Following Holy Communion, we piously return home, retain a prayerful and peaceful disposition, do good works, and exert all our efforts not to return to the sins from which we have been cleansed.
Fr. Gregory, a graduate of Holy Trinity Seminary, is rector of Holy Protection Russian Orthodox Church in Rochester, NY. He and his matushka homeschool their two daughters.
Please forgive me, everyone, for my convoluted sentence structure in the previous post.
In verse one, St. Paul is trying to get his followers to not invite people to fellowship merely to provide a venue or opportunity to quarrel, as some Christians were "weak in faith." Meaning: they were easily scandalized. So Paul brings up the dietary battles still being waged between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians as an example of this. As a *secondary* example, he talks about the "days" at issue here. What does the observance of days have to do with eating experiences? Nothing I am aware of in those days. It has to do with another ground for contention in the early Church: whether the Sabbath was to be observed on Saturday, as the Jewish Christians preferred, or on Sunday, to honor the Resurrection as the Day of the Lord. BOTH of these issues are relevant to his main point in verse one regardling contentiousness for contentiousness' sake among believers. His hearers were sufficiently aware of the contemporary controversy that exhaustive details in setting up his point were not necessary.
Anyway, we're doing a good job emulating the problem St. Paul addresses in verse 1 now ourselves, so I will not elaborate further except to say that my aside comment about the Trinity in post 50 is *exactly* the same kind of "secondary example" that St. Paul employs in Romans 14:5-6.
If a person comes to the chalice without having gone through the struggle of prayer, through which he comes nearer to God, if he does not go through a process of ever-increasing interaction with God, then this leap, as it were, from noncommunion to the ultimate level of communion (i.e., Holy Communion) is too drastic. That person is unworthy at that point for the acceptance of the Body and Blood of the Lord, and for that person the Gifts become "fire, consuming the unworthy."
What controls are in place to prevent someone from approaching the Holy Mysteries in a state of sin, other than personal conscience? In the Latin Church, just about everyone goes up to communion, even the most reprobate sinners. There are controls in place to prevent this but the Latin Church is so large and with communion also distributed by Eucharistic Ministers, it is nearly impossible, especially in the big parishes, to turn someone away. In the Maronite Church, since the priest is the ONLY one distributing communion, he can (and does) refuse communion, because the parish is much smaller and he knows everyone. Perhaps this is still true in the Orthodox Churches?
perhaps checking out IHSV.com would help
In ROCOR you can't go to communion unless you've gone to confession (they're pretty strict about enforcing that, I wouldn't say it's impossible but it's highly improbible).
They are the exception to the rule even amoung th orthodox though.
Everything. Confess your sins to one another does not, repeat not, mean confess your sins to the clergy and the clergy keeps its sins from the laity.
I am astounded that you folks are still in that church (and actively recruiting at that) after all this. If you were really as conservative as your handle indicates, you would disavow the title of Catholic and not set foot in that church until it comes clean with its members. You guys should have had those Cardinals removed and jailed instead of performing Mass at JPII's funeral.
There are great Catholics in public life like Limbaugh, OReilly, Hannity, Justices Roberts, Alito, and Scalia. But then Kennedy, Pelosi, Kerry, and Biden get to call themselves Catholic, too. How can one church encompass both opposites? I read that the Vatican supported the proposed gun ban in Brazil last year, too? What about somebody floating the idea of forgiving Judas? Just what the hell is the Roman Catholic Church about?
Greetings...in your view, what kinds of sins would you speculate might be retained? 2nd question...if a sin is retained is salvation then denied by default?
Respectfully in Christ...
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