Posted on 01/10/2006 4:14:51 AM PST by Quester
Hm, your second long post since yesterday denigrating the Book of Mormon; are we seeing a trend here?
I think he's sucking up to the Calvinists. lol.
I think he's sucking up to the Calvinists. lol.
I suggest you read them both and pray and ask for yourself.
If Mormonism is the only true religion, then I have to wonder why God would have waited over 1800 years after the birth of Christ to reveal it to this man. How could God let all those people spread all that false teaching that would have resulted in people going to hell for all that time without correcting it much earlier? If Mormonism was true, it should have been taught from the very beginning by Jesus himself and there is no recorded evidence that Jesus referred to this. It would have been pretty irresponsible of God to make such a *slip*.
ping a more appropriate thread for discussion, if you wish
I'd worry more about ethical monotheism, and less about sewing dissent among those who practice it.
Searching for truth should denigrate no book. When this is done with the Koran or Book of Mormon it is a good thing.
The article is nonsense. In his eagerness to find contradictions, the author misquotes both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. He ignores passages that would invalidate his conclusions. He commits errors of logic as well as fact. Some of his "contradictions" are downright silly.
So what are they? You have more than accusations?
How can you be Christian - yet profess to be the only "true" religion. This totally discounts other or mainstreams Christianity.
Hm, your second long post since yesterday denigrating the Book of Mormon; are we seeing a trend here?
There is no denigration of the Book of Mormon here, ... but rather a very straight-forward presentation of how the Bible and the Book of Mormon contradict at points.
Of course I do. Let’s take the author’s first point:
1. The Book of Mormon teaches that little children are not capable of sin because they do not have a sinful nature (Moroni 8:8). In contrast, the Bible in Psalm 51:5 clearly teaches that we have sinful nature from birth: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" (NIV). (This does not mean that those who die in infancy are lost.*)
The author cites Moroni 8:8. Here is that verse in its entirety:
Note that this verse says nothing about whether children have a “sinful nature” or not. It says that children cannot sin. I take that to mean that they cannot sin because they lack the capacity to tell right from wrong. They are redeemed from the effects of the Fall through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.
The first part of Moroni 8:8 obviously parallels Mark 2:17:
Judging from Mark 10:13–17, Jesus did not consider little children to be in need of repentance. Rather than call them to repentance, Jesus blessed them and said that we must emulate them if we are to enter into the kingdom of God:When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
13 ¶ And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
So where is the contradiction?
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:10-14
and
13 ¶ And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
18 ¶ Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Matthew 12: 13-24
Isn't Mr. Wilson playing a rather Pharisical game in his above quote? And isn't the Savior abundantly clear on what he thought of such games?
Boy that is one Pharisee, calling another Pharisical.
The Mormons (you) believe that you are the only "true," Church. Now who is being Pharisical?
Why should one become a Mormon, then, if we are all Christian and we are saved equally? It is the Mormons that call every other Christian "not good enough."
The only true religion is Christianity as originally taught by Jesus Christ and his apostles. "Mormonism" is just a nickname for original Christianity, restored by revelation to Joseph Smith. As such, we believe "Mormonism" was taught by Jesus Christ from the very beginning.
God allows people their freedom to believe and to teach false doctrines. One need only look about to realize that this is true.
That does not mean that everyone who believes in false doctrines will go to hell. God will judge each person's behavior according to the light and knowledge he or she possessed. Moreover, those who were denied the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ in the flesh will have that opportunity in the hereafter before the Resurrection and Final Judgment.
Isn't Mr. Wilson playing a rather Pharisical game in his above quote?
What quote ?
Joseph Smith described the sectarian wrangling in 1820:
"[G]reat multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, "Lo, here!" and other, "Lo, there!" Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
"For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expresed at the time of their converstion . . . yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the preists and the converts were mor pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued -- priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.
. . .
"[T]he cry and the tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others."
All I can say is: The more things change, the more they remain the same. There is still no shortage of people who see no irony whatsoever in bashing and misrepresenting the beliefs of others in order to prove they are the most "Christian."
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