Luther and Erasmus: The Controversy Concerning the Bondage of the Will

Protestant Reformed Theological Journal ^ | April 1999 | Garrett J. Eriks

[Full Court]

Where exactly did you get that idea from? The Bible never mentions that!

In 2nd Peter, Peter tells is that even though they personally saw Jesus and heard his voice, that they have something more sure than even THAT, the Scriptures.

2 Peter 1:16
 ¶For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19  ¶We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[jo kus]

Yes Christ says that, and no, as far as I know that does not go against the teachings of Luther and Calvin. In fact, the only way for believers to exceed the "righteousness" of the Pharisees was that if what Luther and Calvin taught was true, Imputed Righteousness. Man does nothing of his own to receive imputed righteousness. Wouldn't you agree that the righteousness of Christ EXCEEDS the righteousness of the Pharisees? I sure think so. Therefore, there is no contradiction to the scripture.

FK, you are blowing me away here. Over the course of these discussions, you have remained consistent in that God does everything, we do nothing towards salvation. There is no cooperation, no transformation internally in man. Thus, we enter heaven, according to Luther and you, through the external righteousness of Christ, who covers over our own wickedness - since we can do nothing whatsoever of merit, even AFTER our regeneration.

NOW, you talk about imputed righteousness? That man has an ability placed within himself (after regeneration) to turn to God - to cooperate with the graces given? I am beginning to wonder if you are not becoming Methodist (which is an improvement - congratulations!)

If you look at Matthew 5:20 and up to the end of chapter 7, Jesus meticulously details HOW our righteousness can exceed the Pharisees. Elsewhere, He tells us we can do nothing good without Him. So the whole while, we know that Christ must abide within us for us to perform the works of Mat 5-7. But note this - it IS our work as well as Christ's - WE will be judged on this, not on Christ's Work! Christ is not going to be judged! WE will be. And we will be judged on whether our righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees, as laid out in Matthew 5-7.

Regards

[Full Court]

Salvation is only possible as a result of Christ's work. However, this work is not over!

Hebrews 1:3  
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,
and upholding all things by the word of his power,
when he had by himself purged our sins, [no co redeemer needed.]
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.....

Hebrews 10:12
 But this man,
after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;

13  From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The work is over.

[jo kus]

In 2nd Peter, Peter tells is that even though they personally saw Jesus and heard his voice, that they have something more sure than even THAT, the Scriptures.

Your very sentence denies "the only place His revelation to man can be found is in the Bible"... The Witness of the Apostles IS God's revelation - the Scriptures come to us FROM them.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

It is this speaking, as moved by the Spirit, that is God's revelation. You make a presumption you cannot possibly prove - that the Bible encapsulates everything that the Apostles spoke.

Regards

[Full Court]

Then why don't the Jews believe in Jesus Christ? Why don't THEY accept the NT as Scriptures?

One day they will.

Zechariah 12:10  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the spirit of grace and of supplications:
and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,
and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,
and shall be in bitterness for him,
as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

[tenn2005]

APOSTLES provided us with Christ's revelation - whether given orally or in written word.

I am surprised to see you endorsing Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Oral Roberts, James Robertson and all the other self-proclaimed modern receipants of revelation from God. If the Pope can claim this so can any other man. The only sure basis is to stack with that which has been written. But I doub't that your Catholic indoctrination will allow you to see that.

[Full Court]

David does not express any assuredness in this verse

David says he will "go to" the baby who has died.

Does that mean the baby went to Hell and Davis will go there too?

[Full Court]

I am beginning to become concerned over your apparent worship of the Bible.

At least he believes it.

2 Samuel 22:31  As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Psalms 68:11  The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

Isaiah 40:8  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

John 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[Full Court]

Remember Peter denied Christ - yet he became the leader of the Apostolic community.

And a sad footnote about Peter. He failed in his mission.

Galatians 2:9  And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

If anyone could lay claim to being "pope" it would be Paul, not Peter.

[Full Court]

that the Bible encapsulates everything that the Apostles spoke. No, that wasn't the claim or the point.

Peter says that the word is more sure than the voice of God.

And don't forget:

Psalms 138:2
 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

[Full Court]

Yeah, my version doesn't say it this way, but I like yours better for this issue.

THE FOUR-FOLD SUPERIORITY OF THE KING JAMES VERSION

By Dr. D.A. Waite

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/waite-fourfold1.html

(Dr. D. A. Waite, received a B.A. (Bachelor of Arts) in classical Greek and Latin from the University of Michigan in 1948, a Th.M. (Master of Theology), with high honors, in New Testament Greek Literature and Exegesis from Dallas Theological Seminary in 1952, an M.A. (Master of Arts) in Speech from Southern Methodist University in 1953, a Th.D. (Doctor of Theology), with honors, in Bible Exposition from Dallas Theological Seminary in 1955, and a Ph.D. in Speech from Purdue University in 1961. He holds both New Jersey and Pennsylvania teacher certificates in Greek and Language Arts. He has been a teacher in the areas of Greek, Hebrew, Bible, Speech, and English for over thirty-five years in nine schools, including one junior high, one senior high, three Bible institutes, two colleges, two universities, and one seminary.)

[Full Court]

Full Court:

"Mary is not co redeemer. The Holy one of Israel needeth no help."

JoKus:

"And yet, the Law was given through Moses, and the Savior came through a woman. Millions today preach the Gospel. Apparently, God is not offended by working through us lowly humans..."


FullCourt:

Luke 19:40  And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

[1000 silverlings]

I know we are not the ark of the covenant, relax.:)

[1000 silverlings]

The call to be a disciple is yes, the call to sainthood.

[1000 silverlings]

The problem isn't in treating Mary with respect and I think you know that. The problem is that we won't cross a line into worship of her. We all know who the Queen of Heaven is that Jeremiah preached against, and to even give her this title fills us with....something, I'm not sure what, dread maybe.

In contrast, try to find the name of David's mother in the bible-- good luck, she isn't even mentioned. Other than how David came to know Solomon's mother, she too gets no great mention. Poor Leah, she had to trick Jacob into loving her, as he loved Rachel more. The precedent is set for Mary to fulfill her great mission and to live as just another Jewish woman. If it was not so, Jesus would have made sure to say so. We believe what Jesus said in the bible, and that is our only fault.

[HarleyD]

jokus-I am beginning to become concerned over your apparent worship of the Bible.

FC-At least he believes it....

You forgot:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

Christ was the incarnation of God's word.

[1000 silverlings]

I don't see "Word" as meaning the Church

The ministers, pastors must preach the word and teach the faithful. As William Whitaker stated in his noble work: “For we also say that the church is the interpreter of Scripture, and that the gift of interpretation resides only in the church: but we deny that it pertains to particular persons, or is tied to any particular see or succession of men.”

http://www.the-highway.com/Sola_Scriptura_Godfrey.html

[jo kus]

The work is over.

The work of redemption, but not sanctification. At least not for me - I know I am not perfect in Christ yet.

Regards

[jo kus]

I am surprised to see you endorsing Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Oral Roberts, James Robertson and all the other self-proclaimed modern receipants of revelation from God. If the Pope can claim this so can any other man. The only sure basis is to stack with that which has been written. But I doub't that your Catholic indoctrination will allow you to see that.

HA! That's funny! Well, I am still waiting for you to show me, from Scripture, that what is written is to be the only thing that is considered the revealed word of God! Where exactly were the Apostles' oral traditions abrogated by the Bible? Which biblical passage gives Protestants a warrant to do away with Apostolic teachings? Is this perhaps a 'tradition of men'... GASP!

Regards

[jo kus]

At least he believes it.

Wonderful. But the Bible is not God.

Regards