Magisterium on Creation and Evolution

Zenit ^ | Dec 14, 2005 | Father Rafael Pascual

[TXnMA]

Heads up! This article "has some meat on its bones"...

BTW, Ladies, I find myself pinging you two to these threads because

1. Your thoughtful insights and comments usually make me go, "Hmmmm!" -- and drive me to further study...
2. Your personal testimonies always bless and uplift me...

Guess I'm just selfish! '-)

[narby]

When you speak about generic evolution, the idea most people has is of some soup of chemicals that mixed because of atmosphiric changes...

That's not a description of evolution in any way. That's abiogenesis, which is an entirely different subject, and much less understood. That's why it's so easy for misinformation to be spread on the subject, because many people have no idea what they're talking about.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for this ping and all of your pings!

Truly, TXnMA, you have been in our hearts and minds also. I'm sure the Spirit has a purpose in this.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed. That section calls for meditation!

Truly there is no incompatibility between faith and reason, nor between matter and spirit, as some of our correspondents tirelessly insist. They are complementarities that express the whole man, and they do not contradict each other in any way. For both have their origin in God, who is Truth. And truth cannot contradict truth.

Thank you for this wisdom, dear sister in Christ. It is so important to keep repeating this - especially in this day and age - because many have been (probably intentionally and unintentionally) proliferating a lie: that the natural is not part/product of the supernatural, that it is an either/or.

[hosepipe]

[ Truly there is no incompatibility between faith and reason, nor between matter and spirit ]

Every man can reason, how well he does is the question..
Every man has faith, what he has faith in is the question..

Matter very well might be a form of energy, and spirit very well might a form of energy.. The matter / energy duality is not proven completely yet if even possible, so then the spirit link to energy might not be possible to prove either, NOW..

What is provable, even to ME.. is that man can be the most arrogant creature on this planet..
Thinking they are wise they become fools.. buying 2nd reality as if it were 1st reality.. and wouldn't know reality if it jumped up and bit them on their "but"...

[Alamo-Girl]

What is provable, even to ME.. is that man can be the most arrogant creature on this planet.. Thinking they are wise they become fools.. buying 2nd reality as if it were 1st reality.. and wouldn't know reality if it jumped up and bit them on their "but"...

LOLOLOL! So very true!

[TXnMA]

Truly there is no incompatibility between faith and reason, nor between matter and spirit, as some of our correspondents tirelessly insist. They are complementarities that express the whole man, and they do not contradict each other in any way. For both have their origin in God, who is Truth. And truth cannot contradict truth.

Thank you, Ma'am! Those are some thoughts that deserve to be framed, hung on the wall, and pondered -- frequently and prayerfully!

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed, it is beautifully and truly said!

[Right Wing Professor]

I don't post on the religion forum. Thanks.

[betty boop]

Oh thank you so very much, TX, for your kind words!

How did the human race get to the point where it could say faith is superstition and thus false, and reason alone is qualified to deal with issues of the truth of reality? Jeepers, I must have missed something....

[betty boop]

I don't post on the religion forum. Thanks.

Too bad, RWP. Do you ever read here? If not, in this case, you're missing out on the first-rate exposition of a world-class philosopher regarding subjects that I know are near and dear to your heart.

Is this some kind of self-censorship you practice?

[Alamo-Girl]

How, indeed. Thank God we are immune to such things. Maranatha, Jesus!

[Right Wing Professor]

I'm not religious, and my interest in religion qua religion is approximately zero. I see no point, therefore, in intruding on a forum where my only comments would be negative or critical.

[betty boop]

Thank God, dear A-G! Maranatha!

[betty boop]

I see no point, therefore, in intruding on a forum where my only comments would be negative or critical.

Well. It would be a start....

[TXnMA]

Most of you are aware that I am distressed by the enormous resources wasted by a large number of our believing brethren who make a crusade of attacking the scapegoat called "evolution" rather than focusing those resources on furthering the work of Our Lord's "Great Commission".

Both of us say, "God Said it; I believe it; and that ends it." and we mean what we say. Unfortunately, many folks hide behind that simplistic declaration, and use it as a shield against faithfully seeking to understand what God really said in Genesis.

Face it: acknowledging that one is "made in the image of God" is heady stuff. It is also dangerous, in that misunderstanding the true nature of God can lead one to hurtful hubris and wasted emphasis on the importance of this mortal body.

IMCO, whether they will admit it or not, the interpretation of Genesis by many "anti-evolution creationists" has been mis-directed and deluded by anthropomorphic images like this famous, but very seductive painting:

One (erroneous) message inherent in this image is that the body on the left was modeled after ("in the image of") the body on the right. Even subconscious acceptance of that message can color a believer's understanding of Genesis so as to place undue importance on how man's physical body arrived at its present state. That is a slippery slope toward hubris and undue emphasis and energy expenditure on antievolutionism.

I know whereof I speak: I was under that selfsame delusion -- until intense study of Scripture and of physical science -- together -- led me to understand why this Commandment,

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Was placed second only after,

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Clearly, the Second Commandment not only prohibits the creation and worshiping of "graven" (frescoed?) images, it warns us away from the dangerous, but mortal, temptation to "put a human face on God", who, according to Scripture, is Spirit. Such anthropomorphism not only degrades God, it elevates man's perception of this earthly body to the point that many feel the need to defend its (non-existent, IMCO) sanctity from any attempt to discern the processes involved in its development.

I find it to be curious, indeed, that many believers who (like I) look forward with hope to our souls' discarding of this frail, aching, fat, skinny, ugly, etc. vessel, perversely defend its genesis as if it were something more than a mere container for their souls and spirits.

To Michaelangelo's credit, the center of his painting is not the fully-formed (evolved from the "dust of the earth"?) and mature body of Adam on the left -- already matured, awake and aware...and reaching out to God. Nor is it the absurdly anthropomorphized representation of God on the right. (Why not a burning bush, or a pillar of fire or smoke or some other form in which God's Spirit has manifested?)

The center of his painting is, indeed, the narrow gap between God and Adam -- bridged by a tiny spark representing the "pneumos" -- the "Breath of Life" -- the Spirit and Likeness of God -- indwelling the first Man whose body and brain were (finally) developed to the point of being capable of housing God's Spirit.

I rejoice in having a spirit and soul, "in the image of God". But I place minimal importance on how my fellow scientists attempt to explain how my soul's mortal transporter reached its present state of development.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, I have my own explanation for this particular body's sorry state: genetics, old age and bad diet... '-)

[hosepipe]

I Don't know whether to be offended on being called ugly in such a creative style or to be impressed by this bit of wisdom written in your post..

[ I rejoice in having a spirit and soul, "in the image of God". But I place minimal importance on how my fellow scientists attempt to explain how my soul's mortal transporter reached its present state of development. ]

If you are not a comedian, at least you're quite an interesting person read..

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and perspective on the crevo wars - and especially, your testimony!

Seems to me the most combative correspondents on the one side are those who believe reality is "matter in all its motions" - and those on the other side who believe that Adam was the first mortal man.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOLOL! When I consider what the human body actually "is" underneath the outward appearance, it's not very pretty to me. And as you have said, it's "needy" - has to have air, food, water, baths, repairs. I'm not suicidal or anything but truly, I look forward to the day my spirit weighs anchor from this body. Then I'll be free.

[LieothVarthes]

Let us revamp... The basic theory for most people of evolutionism has to do with this idea... Without it, there would be no backing what so ever... I simply use it as an example...Not as a purist's bible ideal or anything of the sort...