Reflection On The Execution of Tookie Williams, The Coming Excommunication of the Episcopal...

I bookmarked your link and look forward to reading all of it. Thanks very much for posting it.

Original Protestant theology believed that God gives man grace and faith and man doesn’t do anything to merit his salvation. Over the years this doctrine was altered that man comes to God by his “free will” which is what a bulk of Protestants today believe.

Well, I guess that clearly makes me an originalist. When you speak of the bulk of Protestants believing in free will, do you mean exercising free will as a work to earn salvation? I hope that is not supposed to be Southern Baptist theology. I know it is easy to start going in circles on the subject of free will. I just know that since nothing good can possibly come from me, that my faith must come from God.

Man’s will is in bondage until God sets us free. Of course most do not like what is implied here.

I don't know, that idea sounds perfectly normal to me. I like it just fine. :) BTW, by "most" do you mean Catholics or other Protestants, or both?

Catholics believe God infuses man with His grace and man “co-operates” with God to come to a knowledge of Him.

Only after he is moved and enabled by grace. Apart from grace, man can do nothing. II Orange, St. Paul, and Jesus himself all attest to this.

"Apart from me [Jesus], you can do nothing."

"With God, all things are possible."

Both are true.

I don't know, that idea sounds perfectly normal to me. I like it just fine. :) BTW, by "most" do you mean Catholics or other Protestants, or both?

Ah...you must be a traditional Baptist. The Southern Baptists used to be very strong Reformers (e.g. Charles Spurgeon, A.W. Pink, Matthew Henry, etc.). Sadly the Southern Baptists are in a flux with part of them holding an Arminian view (Rick Warren) and the other part holding a Reformed perspective (John Piper). It usually rears it's ugly head when one starts talking about election.

I (and a few others) feel there are only two Christian views in this world; those who believe we cooperate with God in some fashion (synergism) and those who believe God chooses His elect (monergism). For further information on the synergist (Arminian) view and the monergist (Reformed) view click on my name.

The Southern Baptists used to be very strong Reformers (e.g. Charles Spurgeon, A.W. Pink, Matthew Henry, etc.).

I think you must be right about me because I use Matthew Henry's ideas all the time in my debating. I think he's great.

For further information on the synergist (Arminian) view and the monergist (Reformed) view click on my name.

I did just that and I can tell that you and I think very much alike. I gobbled up your article link too for further reading. Thanks for posting. BTW, I see you are in Virginia. I lived in Fredericksburg and graduated from William and Mary. Nice to meet you HarleyD.

I'm inclined to think that the 24 years since his conviction was quite a good opportunity to repent, if he was ever going to.

Well said. It is a simple fact of the brokenness of the world, that in reality some people are beyond redemption. How many times in the life of Christ did seekers turn and walk away because they could not accept his call to die?

At the moment of Christ’s passing, he writhes in agony and his feet jerk, pulling the lowest crossbar askew. On the traditional Russian Orthodox cross, the lowest crossbar is at an angle, with the right side up (Dismas went to Heaven) and the left side down (Gestas went to Hell).

Thank you for that information. I've always wondered, but never took the time to look it up.

First of all very interesting post. I am an Episcopalian, and while I am not happy with the way the church has been heading there a few larger doctrinal issues that would keep me from joining the Catholic church. I've been a little too busy finishing up grad school to determine exactly what my long term plans will be. But that is one of the reasons I've been trying to follow these threads on FR.

Anyway, one of my issues with my understanding of Catholic doctrine is that I believe once saved you are saved for good.

From the KJV, John Chapter 10:

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

KJV, Romans Chapter 8:

8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I know that these are open to other interpretations, but these are the primary passages that lead me to my conclusion. Mostly as I read no man in the passages in John to include the individual themselves.

How God deals with such people, how He applies both justice and mercy is something best left up to Him. Only God can truly know the state of that person's soul, how willful the choices the person made were, and such.

Again, well said.

-paridel

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