Posted on 12/09/2005 11:58:25 PM PST by HarleyD
The specific passages I'd like Luther to explain (no beer for me, thanks) from the viewpoint of his philosophy are listed in my 20, along with reasons why Luther does not understand them.
I would say a man that can not present the gospel is in no position to judge the correctness of the teachings of Luther.
Paul addressed that very thing
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I'm an apologist for the Church of Jesus Christ.
If you want to talk "hate" and "retribution", Luther gave as good as he got. Maybe you'd like to post some of his more profane diatribes against Catholics and/or Jews so we can judge for ourself. "Papist ass" was one of his gentler insults.
Here St. Paul accuses Luther, whose tradition you are so rash to follow. The gospel Luther does not understand is presented in my #20, along with reasons why.
You still have not told us what the good news is? Is it that men can now grow their own seeds?
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
So few realize that our faith to believe is actually a gift . It is Gods faith in us that saves us .
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him
.Phl 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is] the gift of God:
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are not looking at human hope or human faith .. but at a supernatural faith brought by God to the man . This is not faith the train will be on time or that the sun will rise in the morning ... This is a supernatural faith, to believe what others with human faith deny
1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
One does not work himself into faith .
What is the Good news ? What is the gospel? All Post 20 is is a defense of a work based salvation is that the gospel?
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
I am a simple woman that loves Christ and the gospel and wants to show others that are thirsty where to find the water so they will never thirst again.
In your own words, what is the gospel?
Hey, I just ordered this and the old black-n-white one about Luther on DVD. Should be here day after tomorrow. Thought we watch it with the family back home since the churches are shutting down. ;O)
Then there would seem to be little to fight about.
You know, when More was condemned, he told the judges who condemned him that he looked forward to seeing them in heaven. I think you and I can at least say as much to each other, can we not?
Do you have a comment out of your own mind about the passages in Matthew and Luke I pointed out in #20? No, works based salvation is not in the gospels, as St. Paul explains in the quotes you pasted; but the necessity of works of charity is, nevertheless, in the gospels, particularly in the passages that I outlined in #20. These are the parts Luther did not retain from all his reading and you cannot explain.
What you pointed to was not good news. It was not the gospel.
When you know what the gospel is come and see me :)
Ahh see only one of us is correct, the way is not wide it is narrow.
Now your church has cursed me, so if I am right and they are in serious error I will be in heaven, they will not .
If they were right and salvation is earned thought the graces dispensed by Mary through the church and as a reward for good works, as they burn in purgatory for all their forgiven sins, I would be in hell.
Obviously if I thought that was true I would be buying a statue of mary to put flowers in front of .And there is not a chance in hell of that happening :)
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
I know that I know do you know that you know?
What I pointed to was the Gospels of Luke and Matthew, parts of the "scriptura" that is supposed to be "sola" source of doctrine. I understand your wordplay, and I am not inclined to play it, -- it is a part of Luther's obfuscation of the meaning of scripture.
Let me repeat: Luther did not understand important parts in the Gospels of Luke and Matthew (see #20).
Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
What was preached ?
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Will the end come before you can tell me the gospel ? :)
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Are you denying the written gospels now? Post 20.
Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
What was the Good news that He preached?
It is wonderful that you realize that the written scripture alone is insufficient for understanding Christ.
My point (see post 20) is much simpler, that the written Gospel was not understood by Luther, who held the erroneous view that it is sufficient. The proof of that is in how when I ask a Protestant for an exegesis of the passages I pointed out in 20 (there are, of course, others, equally left unread), they give me a pepperspray of quotes from Galatians and Romans, with which I wholeheartedly agree, but they do not explain the Gospel in front of them.
That's my tag-line...nice to see it in bold red!!
Actually, I feel the Gospels show us even more clearly than Paul...Believe in the Messiah and his sacrifice...John 3:16-18 , my tagline, etc...Matthew Mark Luke and John are overflowing with the same ideas as Paul writes about...Christ died for our sins, we are brought to the FAther by the Spirit, etc...it all agrees...
I think we'd all be better off if we just do works of love because we love our Savior and we want to follow his commands of Love God first and love your neighbor...then all the passing lane discussions go away...
Here's my proposal for 2006...let's all just do what Christ asks of us...believe, be baptized, repent, love God and the saints, do the works of love that are prepared for us because we want to please our God and have a living faith...Who's with me???
Blessings in Christ...
Are you saying that God himself is incapable of putting into written form the words to lead to understanding Christ? That's a new one to me...how do you justify this statement?
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