I thought you were confused on what public or private devotion to Mary consisted of, not what a plenary indulgence was. I guess I was having an Emily Litella moment.
Posted on 11/29/2005 9:32:31 PM PST by murphE
The faithful must also participate in a formal prayer service in honor of Mary "or at least openly demonstrate their devotion to Mary" by praying before an image of the Immaculate Conception on display for public veneration. The faithful should also recite the Lord's Prayer, the creed and a prayer to Mary.
very interesting in light of our last conversation!
""rough judgment" ...hmmm... sounds like purgatory. :)"
Well, more like a "purgation", and there are some big differences.
1. It occures at the judgement seat of Christ.
2. There is no evidence that it is a "hellish" place where one spends eons.
3. There's no buying, crying or prying your way out of it.
As Paul said,
"Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;" Rom 14
Quite a deal--a bargain even--considering. ;OD
This is what the article says is required:
The faithful must also participate in a formal prayer service in honor of Mary "or at least openly demonstrate their devotion to Mary" by praying before an image of the Immaculate Conception on display for public veneration. The faithful should also recite the Lord's Prayer, the creed and a prayer to Mary.
It seems to me that a Rosary prayed in a Catholic Church (one that still has statues and images of Our Blessed Mother, that is) would cover it. However, it would be especially fitting if each bishop of every diocese directed his priests to organize something more formal in every parish. I wouldn't count on that happening though.
Still confusing.
Ah, thanks.
"Those who have once had the faith, and fallen away, are subject to the loss of their salvation."
Two points.
1. I believe the Bible teaches the reality of apostasy.
2Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2. It is not clear from the passage in Heb. that the people had true faith. They may have been like the crowds that followed Jesus, partaking in Spirit to the extent that they witnessed his awesome miracles and yet, in the end, turned away. Interesting to note that the author is quick to reassure the the reader with...
"Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things--things that belong to salvation."
I see a strong allusion in v8 to the parable of the 4 soils.
"We can't buy, cry or pry our way out of it."
Isn't that exactly what an indulgence does???
"In the Sacrament of Penance the guilt of sin is removed, and with it the eternal punishment due to mortal sin; but there still remains the temporal punishment required by Divine justice, and this requirement must be fulfilled either in the present life or in the world to come, i.e., in Purgatory. An indulgence offers the penitent sinner the means of discharging this debt during his life on earth."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm
And aren't you folks suppose to be able to pray to some saint (St. Gertrude the Great?) and thereby release 1,000 souls from Purgatory at a time?
"It does occur after our judgment."
I believe the Bible teaches that our very standing before Christ IS the fire.
And there is no Biblical basis for believeing that "Purgatory" is an actual place ( a Hell-lite if you will) - nor that anyone is required to spend eons there.
I thought you were confused on what public or private devotion to Mary consisted of, not what a plenary indulgence was. I guess I was having an Emily Litella moment.
You do hang around a lot and I would like to think that the Holy Spirit is working in you and you are fighting it. I would invite you to attend the inquiry period of an RCIA class. You make no commitments and you get the whole thing presented to you in person.
Greetings...in staying with your screen name, you've knitted me a conundrum...below is a quote of the article...I have some sincere and I hope you will find respectful comments that follow it...
"may obtain a Plenary Indulgence in their own homes, or wherever they may be, if, with the soul completely removed from any form of sin, and with the intention of observing the aforesaid conditions as soon as possible, they unite themselves in spirit and in desire to the Supreme Pontiff's intentions in prayer to Mary Immaculate, and recite the Our Father and the Creed."
1. I give up on the mixed messages of "praying" to Mary...most RCC'r's say you don't pray to Mary, then a Papal decree tells you to "unite themselves in spirit and in desire to the Supreme Pontiff's intentions in PRAYER to MARY IMMACULATE and recite the Our Father and The Creed." Which is it? Do you pray to Mary or not...according to this Papal decree you actually do or maybe a better way of saying it is you should...
2. How can the Pope know if "the soul completely removed from any form of sin, and with the intention of observing the aforesaid conditions as soon as possible" when this is done in private and frankly done in person to teh Pope himself. If this is a requirement of receiving the indulgence, then it seems that the Pope is claiming to do what only God can do--seeing into the hearts of man. Only God knows the hearts of men and only He knows if we are free of sin, which in all honesty is a rare feat indeed for us sinful creatures.
I look forward to your reply...
In Christ...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.