Posted on 11/19/2005 12:37:40 AM PST by Queen Beruthiel
Losing ethnic identy would be a big concern to many. The practical matters of ownership of property would be another.
Of course, a very relevant lesson in all of this is the fact that the ecumenical council vaulted Constantinople ahead of the more ancient Patriarchates of Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem.
Why? Because it was the city of greatest importance in the life of the empire and the church.
By this same token, if we have a future ecumenical council, there should be another reordering of the importance and precedence of the existing Patriarchates, IMHO.
"By this same token, if we have a future ecumenical council, there should be another reordering of the importance and precedence of the existing Patriarchates, IMHO."
Never thought of that. I wonder what the politics of such an issue would be...rather like the last time we reordered things I suspect. At first blush one might think this would mean the MP moving into the second spot, but what if the American Church were autocephallous and a Patriarch were sitting in Washington? Or better yet, the EP moved to DC, as has been suggested off and on. :)
"Eastern-rite Catholics are Catholics, let's be honest if not blunt about it, because they recgonize the Pope not only as the Patriarch of the West, and a first among other Patriarchs in honor, but of the entire Church -- a visible head of the whole Church to whom all bishops and patriarchs are subjects. Take that monarchichal factor out of their equation and they cease to be Catholic."
Interesting point of view. And in some cases I think true. In my own opinion, I think there's a certain measure of conservatism (or lethargy if you prefer) that enters into the equation. People are where they're at because often times, that's where they're comfortable and they don't think change to be worth the risk.
This is precisely the stumbling block in the issue of the role of the Petrine primacy in the forthcoming Orthodox-Catholic discussions. The Catholic side, of course, insists it is Scriptural (but was not acceptable to the early Church as much, as it is acceptable to it nearly 2000 years later).
The Orthodox do not dispute Petrine primacy "in love" as that of the elder brother, but not as the supreme head to whom all, including the Patriarchs are simply lesser subjects. There is o love in it.
It is well known that the idea of the Petrine supremacy was the defining theme of Pope +Leo the Great, but that the Church did not agree with him.
If simply Petrine succession had anything to do with papacy and its primacy, then Antiochan bishops would most certainly rank first on the list. But, as you observe, this is not the case because the relative importance of a bishop had a lot to do with who is who in the Empire, in other words with politicial prestige.
Given that 80% of all Orthodox are Russian, it may very well be the MP, but no matter how much the Greeks might wish the EP to move to DC and unite Orthodoxy in the "Imperial" capital, the reality is that DC is hardly a place to become the seat of Orthodoxy, let alone the third Rome.
"Given that 80% of all Orthodox are Russian, it may very well be the MP, but no matter how much the Greeks might wish the EP to move to DC and unite Orthodoxy in the "Imperial" capital, the reality is that DC is hardly a place to become the seat of Orthodoxy, let alone the third Rome."
Oh, I don't know, the first Rome was pretty well paganized too! :)
I'm still holding out for having the EP turn all of his energies toward re-evangelizing Turkey, then the rest of the Muslim world.
Not only would that make him the unquestioned first among equals of the bishops (moving smartly ahead of any theoretical claims the 1st Rome might have), but we might have to make him an honorary emperor as well!
"...but we might have to make him an honorary emperor as well!"
Now there is one of your ideas I don't like!!!!! :)
Brilliant! Ok, you win. :-)
That brings to mind a title of a movie "One Hundred Million Miracles."
...we might have to make him an honorary emperor as well!
Yeah, one paycheck, that's all. :-)
" Brilliant! Ok, you win. :-)"
Theodoros Kolokotronis, accustomed to triumph but ever the gentleman, bows graciously upon receipt of his brother's compliment! :)
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is true of all, not just of Eastern Catholics. We all love the world. It's the love that is "for keeps." That's why it is called the "self-love." It's by us, for us, and about us. It is inertia. That kind of love does not make us free, but bound. In our minds, that's "good," but it's not true love.
Why are you up so early? I am still jetlagged. I have an excuse. :-)
I get up about 5:00-5:30 AM; cows to milk, chicken's to feed. wood to cut....
I just get up at 6 AM, make strong Turkish coffee, bump into the walls several times before I find soemthing to sit on, and stare at the wall until all systems are "go." Do you take vitamins or something?
"I just get up at 6 AM, make strong Turkish coffee, bump into the walls several times before I find soemthing to sit on, and stare at the wall until all systems are "go." Do you take vitamins or something?"
Aha! There's the problem, "Turkish" coffee. You need a good big mug (not one of those little sissy demitasse cups) of Greek coffee, metrio, like the one I'm drinking right now!
Then I will be on the ceiling all day long. :-)
You just don't spend enough time with your monarchist relatives in Greece! :-)
At least my proposed monarch is actually Greek!
" Then I will be on the ceiling all day long. :-)"
Some Greek, maybe it was me, once observed to his Serb buddy Bogdan that you Serb's idea of "cafe" was rather like that which we give to the old ladies and babies in my village! :)
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