HAPPY RAMADAN!!!
Posted on 10/23/2005 6:55:51 AM PDT by truthandlife
Ping!
Ping!
I go along with: "I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". - John 8:37
"Jehovah"
Forgive a language purist, but "Jehovah" was never a name, or the name, for God in the orginal texts of the old testament.
"Jehovah" was an invented word, invented from a mistake.
The four most frequently used words for God in the original old testament texts were El or Elohim, YHVH and Adonai (Lord). Jehova is not found in any of the original Hebrew texts.
But, as the centuries passed, leading towards the end of the old testament era and the production of numerous scroll and parchment versions of the old testment, the daily-spoken language of many Jews, even learned Jews, began to change. The Jews of later history, spread throughout the middle east, began to speak Aramaic, Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian and Greek in preference to Hebrew, depending on the dominant languages of the empires that they lived under.
Ancient Hebrew was written solely with marks for consonents (YHVH) and the proper vowell sound was inferred by context.
But, as time went on and other spoken languages came into use among the Jews, a danger arose that the proper pronunciation of the Biblical language would be forgotten.
Hebrew scholars began to add little diacrtical marks under the Hebrew consonants, indicating the proper vowell sounds that belonged to each word.
For YHVH (Yahweh) though, they did not produce the proper diacritical marks, since the name (YHVH) was not supposed to be pronounced anyway.
In the attempt to produce a complete set of the old testament translated into Greek, the scholars made the first single compilation of all the old testament texts together in one set. When they did, due mostly to their unfamiliarity of ancient spoken Hebrew, they gave the consonents for YHVH the diacritical marks for the vowell sounds for Adonai (as no vowell marks had been written for YHVH).
As the letter Y in Hebrew becomes a J in Greek and Latin and the vowell sounds for Adonai were given as a soft "a" or "e", "o", and "a", the invented word became J, E, H, O, V, A, H - Jehovah.
Yet, in reality no such word had ever been spoken or written by those who were inspired by God to write the original old testament texts.
If we were to at least maintain some degree of authenticity to the original texts, we would use Yahweh and not Jehovah.
Similarly, if we were wanting to be "authentic" to the language of the original Christian disciples and the Lord God they knew in person, we would say Yeshua and not the Greco-Roman Jesus; a name by which He was never known by His contemporaries.
Please see Hubal and Allah the Moon God?, Islam's God, and A Peek Behind The Crescent Moon Of Islam. It it true that the Hebrew El and the Arabic al are cognate, and both mean god; what follows identifies which "god" is being referred to. The "Al-lah" of the Koran is not the El Shaddai of the Bible.
You are mistaken again. I did not say that. That is something you are inferring I said. Hmmmm?
I believe you are sadly mistaken. Hebrew, Aramaic, Syro-Aramaic, Arabic and some other languages in the Middle East are exceedingly closely related, and they do share words.
I do not see how "I" can be sadly mistaken since "I" have not said these languages are not related.
I also do not see how "I" can be mistaken about the root source and meaning of the words "Salem" and "Islam" as the definitions and root words in the reference sources given in my first post are "not mine", but those of the publishers and/or authors.
Obviously you see that "Islam" is two words, one of which is the same root word we find in "Jerusalem", which is also two ~ or maybe even more words.
Since when is "Jesus" Greco-Roman? I thought Fur Shur it was Puerto Rican or Queens
God is good. Though, "If I knew Him, I'd be Him."
You didnt read anything I just wrote if you believe that
and, NO Adam was not a prophet
Now I'll grant you that for a period of time he didn't have anyone to "teach", but God fixed that problem and it shouldn't be held against Adam.
Muslims are pretty clear that they worship the one true God of the Bible (they share the OT with Christians and Jews and are well aware of who Abraham's God was/is) and not the moon. Too bad you're confused.
Islam is not a Hebrew word with a Hebrew root it is an Arabic word with an Arabic root.
It is the name of a religious practice created by Mohamed who was an Arab in I believe the seventh century.
I do not know what more that I can say.
If you have language reference sources you can post that show Salem [Hebrew} is a root source of Islam I will be happy to consider them.
His name was Abram; God later changed it to Abraham. He is father to the Hebrews and father to the Arabs.
See the connection?
I know it's in the Bible, and many Liberals find it confusing to read through the older parts and think that stuff is just story telling, but there it is.
Those who study languages generally differentiate "Southern Semitic" languages from "Northern Semitic" languages of course, but they have a common origin.
The GOD OF The bible says that there is no sin in heaven, and the God of the bible is not passing out a gang of virgins for sex to men. That is some other god, not one divine and pure and holy. Bush is all mixed up.
Actually, Muslims accept (to a degree) only the first 5 books of the Old Testament, not the whole OT. And, regardless of their clarity, the identity of their god is only one of many things about which Muslims are confused.
What an extraordinary person you must be to know so much more about about another's religion than the believer, himself.
However it seems as if you have changed the parameters of our discussion.
We where talking about the root origin of a specific word "Islam" and not the root origin of languages.
The Bible from what I see seems to lend support to the reference sources I listed instead of adding support to your views.
The word Islam is not found anywhere in the pages of it's 4000 year history.
The Hebrew word Salem is mentioned in four places I know of, Gen 14:18, Psa 76:2, Heb 7:1,2.in each case both Greek and Hebrew Strong's lists it as an early name for Jerusalem.
This is to be expected since the word Islam and the religion it stands for and the person [Mohamed]who created it was not born until seven centuries after the Old and New Testaments were written.
The Bible also states that God gave Jerusalem and quite a bit of the land around it,to Isaac, his heir Jacob [who like Abram renamed Abraham , was renamed Israel]and to Jacob's legal heirs.
Gen 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
Gen 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Gen 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
This is much more than they have today including that which was renamed the West Bank which the Arabs are claiming is their's without any legal proof that I have seen.
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates
The Arabs claim to be descendent's of Ishmael who according to the Bible is not a legal heir nor or his descendent's to the land he promised to Jacob and his heirs.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
If you check the legal records of heirs listed in Mat 1:1-17 and Luke 3:22-38 you will not find Ishmael listed as an heir to the throne of David[ a legal heir of Israel [Jacob] and the city in which it is said to reside in Jerusalem .
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Sorry this is so long but I do not see how your reference source supports the idea that the Arabic word "Islam" is a "root of the word" Jerusalem and it's Hebrew root "Salem".
BTW though it may be hard for some to accept there are liberals, agnostics and even atheists who accept the fact that in certain areas the Bible as a historical document is quite accurate.
There are even some liberals who are Christians.
Hence, Hebrew "slm" and Arabic "slm" are remarkably similar, if not exact, derivatives of the same root word, and each language uses that root word in remarkably similar ways.
The Greeks and Romans upon adopting the Phoenician alphabet (which is based on a fundamental Semitic alphabet that serves Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic and other Semitic languages) added vowels.
Did you ever notice that in English we have the word "peace" and the word "pacify". They come from the same root word in the Indo-European language group. There's a world of difference in them if you think about it.
I believe you are confounding what you believe to be the characteristic of Islam, the religion, with "Islam", the word.
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