Justification by Faith Alone: Catholics and Protestants Together?

http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/gospjust/faith_a.htm ^ | 1996 | James Akin

[Quester]

... the witness of Scripture which tells us that we will not be saved without mercy, without love, without forgiveness of others, and to be blunt, without works. How do you resolve this conflict?

The more Protestant formulation is that God requires faith from men/women ... that they should be saved ...

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

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Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Having then faith in Jesus Christ, ... the believer will perform works which are pleasing in God's sight.

Such is the promise of Jesus, Himself ...

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Such is not difficult to accept, ... since, as believers in Jesus Christ, ... we are re-made in Christ's image ...

Our old life is passed away ... God makes everything about us new ...

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The scriptures go on to say that God, Himself, will finish the work of salvation which He has begun in us (believers).

Philippians 1:3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,

4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,

5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Now ... as new creations in Christ, we are, indeed, called upon to live according to the salvation which has been given unto us.

We (believers) love and obey Him, not to obtain salvation ... but, because He has loved us ... and has saved us.

1 John 4:19 We love Him, ... because He first loved us.

[RnMomof7]

True, it doesn't. It says that since you had been saved, work it out unless you lose it. This is what the fear implies, loss of salvation.

But that would be contrary to the word of God .

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

If you believe that a man can 'lose" his salvation then you have a salvation of works not grace or mercy

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

There are plentiful references to necessity of work infused with grace, so I am not isolating this verse. It is well corroborated in the Gospel. I showed that in my #15.

Could I have scripture references to being saved by works.. any at all..

Our work comes out of our salvation , IT IS A FRUIT of it not the roots

I will be glad to consider your scripture where it is taught one is saved by works

[InterestedQuestioner]

"Why do you refuse to see the verses dealing with salvation say nothing about faith PLUS works, or the church, or something else?"

Yes they do:

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." --Jas 2:24

Moreover, there are many others, but this one is particularly explicit. The formulation saved by faith alone occurs nowhere is Scripture, correct?

"Paul is talking to the saved, the context of the whole chapter."

I don't remember being told that, but you've put your case very well here. I'm quite concerned and more than a little bit puzzled over the use of the term "saved" here, and I think it's creating a misunderstanding. Do you believe that, after having a sincere belief that Jesus is Lord at the time of conversion, you are guaranteed to go to Heaven when you die? Is this what you mean by "saved"? I don't see that in Scripture, and would be curious as to where you are seeing that. As to the audience in the Epistle of James, it is traditionally referred to as one of the catholic Epistles, which means that it pertains to all.

"your response is the same "salvation through faith ALONE is not in the Bible.""

Indeed, that's because the Bible nowhere says we are saved by faith alone. Or would you care to show me a single verse that says we are saved by faith alone? One verse is all I would need.

"I, and most others I see here, are not basing our belief on the writtings of a mortal man named Luther, but on the teachings of Jesus in the Bible."

I must insist upon this point, the teaching that we are saved by faith alone is Luther's invention, and no other's. It was invented in the 16th century, and is not in the Bible. Your belief system, to the extent that it differs from Catholicism, is indeed based upon the teachings of a mortal man, namely Martin Luther.

[annalex]

One is not saved by works. One can lose one's salvation for lack of proper works.

The verses other than from St. Paul you gave me refer to the elect whom Christ knows outside of time. It is true that some but not all will be saved. We cannot conclude anything about the way of life required of a Christian from these verses. The verse from St. Paul's Romans refers to the works of Jewish law, rather than the works of charity that Christ very clearly commanded us to do.

For references, see my #15.

[Logophile]

We all work out our salvation as we live it out . NO WHERE does Paul say that they are to do this to be saved, but like the letter from James it is a call to live your life so the unsaved can see your faith at work.

But why "fear and trembling"?

[InterestedQuestioner]

"Having then faith in Jesus Christ, ... the believer will perform works which are pleasing in God's sight. "

I have to disagree pretty strongly if you imply that a believer will not do things which are displeasing to God. Believers still sin, this we know, and sin is displeasing to God. Moreover, James seems to be addressing those who believe, but do not show mercy. Mere belief is not enough, if we understand it to be an intellectual assent, it is insufficient.

We're getting a bit close to the holiday weekend, and having a few deadlines before heading out of town, I'll cut the chase. What do you mean by faith? Would you mind defining this in your own words? Whether we are arguing past each other or not depends upon how we define faith. Your post seems to imply that good works follow automatically from Faith. Can you elaborate on that? I see your quote from Philippians 1:6, and understand this to be describing God's faithful work. God keeps his end of the bargain, we know that well, it is man who often falls off the wagon. Scripture is quite clear that those who believe can indeed turn from God.

The author of the article suggests that we can be reconcilled with an understanding faith as being a faith that works in Love. Would you be comfortable with that as a definition of what you mean by faith in the formulation, "we are saved by faith alone?"

[Quester]

One is not saved by works. One can lose one's salvation for lack of proper works.

One who is genuinely saved (i.e. a true believer) ... will perform any necessary works.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And this is only natural, ... as the true believer has a 'new nature' ... he/she is 'created in Christ' ...

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

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Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[annalex]

I am aware of these verses. The distinction between the unformed faith and faith formed by charitable work is made very well in the article; there is no need for me to rephrase it.

[InterestedQuestioner]

"One who is genuinely saved (i.e. a true believer) ... will perform any necessary works.'


Your assumption is that believer = saved. Where do you see that equivalence in Scripture? Your statement implies that we may un-genuinely saved (?). What do you mean by saved? Are you talking about a guarantee of salvation once one has believed in Jesus?

[Quester]

"Having then faith in Jesus Christ, ... the believer will perform works which are pleasing in God's sight. "

I have to disagree pretty strongly if you imply that a believer will not do things which are displeasing to God. Believers still sin, this we know, and sin is displeasing to God. Moreover, James seems to be addressing those who believe, but do not show mercy. Mere belief is not enough, if we understand it to be an intellectual assent, it is insufficient.

I did not say that the believer will not sin ... what I said was that the believer will perform works which are pleasing to God.

For example, ... it is quite evident from the scriptures that Peter sinned, even after becoming a disciple of Jesus.

But ... Peter also performed works which were pleasing to God ... all while living an imperfect life.

BTW ... was Peter always merciful ?

Certainly not ... for he sliced off the ear of the priest's servant.

Is it your belief that one must live a perfect life ... in order to perform works pleasing to God ?

Do you not trust in Jesus that His sacrifice ... will atone for your very own imperfection ?

What do you mean by faith? Would you mind defining this in your own words?

To believe/to have faith in Jesus Christ is to place one's hope for the salvation of one's soul ... in His hands.

The author of the article suggests that we can be reconcilled with an understanding faith as being a faith that works in Love. Would you be comfortable with that as a definition of what you mean by faith in the formulation, "we are saved by faith alone?"

Obeying God's command to believe (have faith) in His Son (the One which He has sent) ... is the only response which God requires from man ... so as to bestow His gift of salvation.

All else that is required ... God performs Himself ...

God has ...

... loved the believer.

... rebirthed the believer's spiritual life.

... sealed the believer unto redemption with His Holy Spirit.

... provided the scriptures as a source of faith for the believer.

... provided the Holy Spirit as a teacher for the believer.

... set those within the Church who will teach the believer.

... committed Himself to finish the work of salvation which He has begun in the believer.

And ... of course ... He provides to man what He requires from man ... saving faith.

God, Himself, has done all of this for the believer.

[Logophile]

Your assumption is that believer = saved. Where do you see that equivalence in Scripture? Your statement implies that we may un-genuinely saved (?). What do you mean by saved? Are you talking about a guarantee of salvation once one has believed in Jesus?

Also, can a believer cease to believe? That is, can he lose his faith in God? And if he can, does he thereby lose his salvation?

[.30Carbine]

Or would you care to show me a single verse that says we are saved by faith alone? One verse is all I would need.

John 6:29:Jesus answered, "The work of God is this:
to believe in the one he has sent."

[InterestedQuestioner]

Wow, that's a really big font.

I'm still waiting for that verse that says I'm saved by faith alone though.

[Quester]

"One who is genuinely saved (i.e. a true believer) ... will perform any necessary works.'

Your assumption is that believer = saved. Where do you see that equivalence in Scripture?

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Your statement implies that we may un-genuinely saved (?).

Not really ... though there are those who will claim to be saved ... who are not.

What do you mean by saved?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Note that Jesus compared His salvation of any man/woman ... to that salvation which was offered the Hebrews in the wilderness ...

Numbers 21:4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way.

5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Note that ...

The people sinned against God.

The people began to die, as a result of their sin.

The people repented of their sin ... and cried out to God (through Moses).

God told Moses to fashion a serpent out of brass ... and to set it upon a pole ... and to tell the people which had been bitten of the serpents ...

"Look to the brass serpent ... and be saved."

And those snake-bitten Hebrews which exercised the faith to look to the brass serpent ... received their (physical) salvation.

Are you talking about a guarantee of salvation once one has believed in Jesus ?

Yes.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

[ScubieNuc]

The formulation saved by faith alone occurs nowhere is Scripture, correct?

Nope, wrong, incorrect. See post #12. All those verses say salvation is through faith in Christ, with nothing else added. If it is faith plus nothing, then it is faith alone. If you really don't understand that concept, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. It would be like not believing in the Trinity because there is no verse that says, " the Trinity is...."

"Paul is talking to the saved, the context of the whole chapter."

I don't remember being told that, but you've put your case very well here. I'm quite concerned and more than a little bit puzzled over the use of the term "saved" here, and I think it's creating a misunderstanding.

Reread post #44 for a good explanation of what saved is. As far as James 2:24 goes....read all of chapter 2. Paul starts out saying "My Bretheren," these are saved people. The rest of the chapter talks about showing their faith through works, not gaining salvation through works. This chapter goes hand in hand with the explanation given in post #26.

Is this what you mean by "saved"? I don't see that in Scripture, and would be curious as to where you are seeing that.

Again see post # 44.

Indeed, that's because the Bible nowhere says we are saved by faith alone. Or would you care to show me a single verse that says we are saved by faith alone? One verse is all I would need.

Read post #12 again.

I must insist upon this point, the teaching that we are saved by faith alone is Luther's invention, and no other's. It was invented in the 16th century, and is not in the Bible. Your belief system, to the extent that it differs from Catholicism, is indeed based upon the teachings of a mortal man, namely Martin Luther.

No, no, no. All those verses in the posts I mentioned are from the Bible.(#12,#26, #44) The concept was championed by Martin Luther but it wasn't his concept. It is the concept of Jesus as written in the Bible.

[.30Carbine]

But why "fear and trembling"?

Because it is commanded.

Because Moses did it.

Because John did it.

If even the appearance of angels merits it, how much more God who created those beings!

It is an awesome thing to know that God Himself has taken up residence in your person for salvation, sanctification, justification, and glorification, and that He must do so or else we are lost.

[Quester]

Also, can a believer cease to believe ? That is, can he lose his faith in God ? And if he can, does he thereby lose his salvation ?

I don't honestly know.

I tend to believe that, ... once saved, ... belief is a part of your makeup. Therefore, you couldn't "not believe" any more than you could "not think".

However, ... the writer of Hebrews tells us that ... " ... if it were possible that believers could lose their faith ... that they could not regain it ... ".

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible ... for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, ... to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[.30Carbine]

Quester ought to have been the recipient of my reply...

or else Quester could read your tagline...

[.30Carbine]

...or else we all could make the same simple confession:

Jesus Christ.

[InterestedQuestioner]

"To believe/to have faith in Jesus Christ is to place one's hope for the salvation of one's soul ... in His hands. "

Quester, I like your definition of Faith, I tend to read a number of passages in Scripture that way.

"Is it your belief that one must live a perfect life ... in order to perform works pleasing to God ? "

No, of course not, but it is my belief that we are always dependent upon the Grace and mercy of God. Thanks for clarifying your point on this.

"Do you not trust in Jesus that His sacrifice ... will atone for your very own imperfection ?"

I trust God, and the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross was Holy and Perfect. But there remains the responsibility of the believer nonetheless to cooperate with the Grace of God.

"Obeying God's command to believe (have faith) in His Son (the One which He has sent) ... is the only response which God requires from man ... so as to bestow His gift of salvation. "

God requires that we obey all of his commands.

"And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." (Matthew 19: 16-21)

Notice that Jesus has been asked very specifically what one must do to inherit eternal life, and nowhere has he said to "just believe." He responds entirely in terms of action. The point I am making is that the Biblical language is very focused on action, and so should our description of how we are saved be. It's my hope that we can reconcile our views by saying that, to believe in Jesus is to do what he says, and to accept the Lordship of Jesus is to be obedient to his commandments. Perhaps you would agree with me on that statement.

"And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

Paul wrestled with the Judaizers who believed that one must be circumcised, keep the Jewish dietary law, and the rest of the Jewish law, in order to be saved. In that context, he responds that it is not the works of the law that save us. In these two examples, however, the question is put directly to Jesus---what must we do to be saved? He answers entirely in terms of action, and as we have seen in Matthew 25, the judgment scene, it is upon these that we will be judged.

Without God we can do nothing, and through faith, we act obediently to God and cooperate with his Grace. If we are to conform to the language of the bible, however, this faith, does not stand alone

And if I ave prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (1Cor 13:2)

Now since John's Gospel has been so popular on this thread today, I'll close with a quote from that prodigy.

"He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." (John 14:21)

Of course, Christ gives us a new commandment that exceeds all the others. We must love one another, as He has loved us.

I'm enjoying your posts, thank you for the good conversation. I didn't want to leave without responding to your thoughtful post, but I have to run now, and will look forward to reading your posts again later. Have an enjoyable Labor day weekend.