Hardly:
Posted on 06/23/2005 6:41:22 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
Details, details...
;-)
I think this person you're talking to needs to read some John Macarthur. "Hard to Believe" and "Ashamed of the Gospel."
Bingo. He's been to the Schuller institute methinks... or read the latest bestseller on how to get your church to grow by pandering to the carnal Christians and unbelievers to get them in the door.
LOL!
I like the TBN game. Turn it on and start your timer, see how long it takes to hear heresy. Sometimes we even get up to a minute or two!
Or I suppose you could call it the TBN 'drinking' game and take a shot every time you hear heresy. Doesn't take long to get plastered, if you do it that way.
Kinda like what Ken Copeland teaches?
Is this person still a friend? < smile >
Yeah, that's why he wept over Lazarus and the onlookers there, lamented over Jerusalem, and sweat great drops of blood.
What false gospel does jkl1122 preach?
2Jo 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
They've traded the truth of God for the lie.
2Th 2:7-12 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
{that is,} the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
Actually I was reading in Deuteronomy Chapter 28 the other day and darned if I didn't come by a bunch of passages that clearly teach that if you "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day" then he will prosper you in all that you do.
It is later culminated in Deuteronomy 29:9 "Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do."
I don't think you can make the claim that if you are a Christian you are not promised that you will prosper. Indeed, it does appear scriptural that if you are a committed Christian and you are hearkening the voice of the Lord, then you will prosper in all that you do. That does seems to be a promise. While "prosper" does not necessarily mean monetary comfort or excess, a reading of Deuteronomy Chapter 28 and 29 does seem to make a pretty good case that God is truly anxious to prosper his people.
I don't know much about Osteen, but I suspect that if he claims that Christians will be blessed with pecuniary riches if only they ask, then IMO he takes this passage and others a bit too far. Quite a bit. But nevertheless it does appear that if we are not prospering in all that we do, then there may be a problem.
Hardly:
Name sounds vaguely familiar (maybe I've seen it scroll by on FR before), but I honestly don't know who this guy is.
Based on the excerpt, he seems to be relying more on himself than the Gospel.
he claims and seems to be true...the largest church in America. He's the pastor of it.
Please expand on your statement:
But nevertheless it does appear that if we are not prospering in all that we do, then there may be a problem.
Back in the 80's, a bunch of us used to sit around and watch the PTL Club before they took the fall (that was some truly excellent television, almost as good as watching Dr. Gene Scott, rest his soul). We would time how long it would take before they would start hocking timeshares that they had at the amusement park just outside of Charlotte, NC. The spiel was always the same too, 6 or 7 people sitting around like in an informal talk-show type of thing and constantly re-explaining the costs and benefits of it to each other. And every time, acting like they had never had the conversation before as they were always so "surprised" at how cheap a deal it was!
I don't have a problem with the idea that God will bless us if we follow His commandments. However, the type of prosperity that Joel Osteen and others preach about is far above what God has promised. They seem to claim that if we are truly faithful, hardships will disappear and we will be be rich beyond our dreams, and that is just not Scriptural.
*****Please expand on your statement:*****
And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
(Deu 28:1 KJV)
And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
(Deu 28:2 KJV)
Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
(Deu 28:3 KJV)
Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
(Deu 28:4 KJV)
Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
(Deu 28:5 KJV)
Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
(Deu 28:6 KJV)
The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
(Deu 28:7 KJV)
The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
(Deu 28:8 KJV)
The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
(Deu 28:9 KJV)
And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
(Deu 28:10 KJV)
And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
(Deu 28:11 KJV)
The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
(Deu 28:12 KJV)
And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
(Deu 28:13 KJV)
And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
(Deu 28:14 KJV)
Again.
How would you suggest we measure that prosperiety? How do you know whether or not "today" you are more prosperous than "yesterday". Is it simply materialistic or something else?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.