Posted on 06/09/2005 12:03:02 PM PDT by Rytwyng
Christ was not a "simple man," but His message sure was.
What part of "Christ's blood sacrificed for the redemption of sin for believers" is too complicated for you?
NEWSFLASH SPARKY:
Various Apostles and disciples were still spreading the gospel at that time -- And believe it or not IN PERSON.
"Every baptized Christian (which is what makes one a Christian)"
Pardon me, but baptism doesn't make one a Christian any more than attending a particular church does.
A "Christian" is a person that has realized(by the intervention of the Holy Spirit) they are a helpless sinner that cannot save themselves from that sin. They recognize their sin separates them from God and they are fit only for hell. In Jesus Christ they perceive the only hope they have of pardon. So, by faith(also a gift from God) they put their whole trust in Christ (God the Son) and Him alone as the means to be saved from both the penalty and power of sin over them. As the old hymnn goes, "nothing in my had I bring, simply to thy cross I cling."
No ritual, like Baptism, makes one a Christian. However, once one has placed their trust in Christ alone, they will submit to Baptism because Jesus commanded it. A Christian will be obediant to their master (Jesus Christ). They will not be sinless, but they will strive to be so (repentance).
Christ has already died on the cross.
Even He said, "It is done."
Now just what part of "It is done" don't you understand, brother, OR was Christ lying when He said it?
"The most interesting thing to me about the Bible is that its depth and beauty are so deep and intense that one can never get to the bottom or tired of its glories."
When led by the Spirit, I agree. It is an amazing gift God has given us through the Church.
Regards
"by the way, who told you that all of those books of the New Testament were Scripture?"
Santa Claus.
HO HO HO!
"Christ was not a "simple man," but His message sure was."
Yes, the "folly" of the Cross. It's one thing to be presented with a "simple" message. It is entirely something else to submit entirely to the message of the Cross - to die to one's self.
Regards
"Christ has already died on the cross.
Even He said, "It is done."
Redemption is finished. Salvation is not, brother. Is Christ's redemptive suffering applied to all people - do all people go to heaven? Paul certainly didn't believe he was saved, he continued to run the race, correct?
Regards
"NEWSFLASH SPARKY:
Various Apostles and disciples were still spreading the gospel at that time -- And believe it or not IN PERSON."
Ah, so there is not just ONE Christian doctrine, then...
Seems to me you are saying God reveals Himself through Scripture AND Apostolic Tradition. Hmmm, what would your Protestant friends be saying when they find out? Tell you to go join the Catholic Church?
Regards
Yes and No.
1) God indeed reveals Himself through Scripture
2) There is no "Apostolic Tradition" -- unless you happen to believe "traditions" impress The Almighty (Hint: They don't).
Christ's blood NOT "suffering" offer the believer a chance at "redemption."
Only God will judge the heart of those "who" go to heaven.
" Paul certainly didn't believe he was saved, he continued to run the race, correct?"
Paul most certainly knew he was "saved."
His "race" was run to encourage and teach the Word -- under the direction of the Holy Spirit.
So much argumentation to get around the plain statements of St. John 3.5, St. Mark 16.16, St. Matthew 28.19, Acts 8.12, 1 St. Peter 3.21, Acts 2.38, Acts 16.33, Acts 18.8, Galatians 3.27, Acts 22.16, etc.
Why not just take the Bible literally instead of creating complex arguments?
Like I said before, I am not interested in the debate. Save it for some other thread.
Read the last verse of the last chapter of St. Matthew's Gospel and repeat it over and over and over again. Look at Christian history with an objective lens. Analyze the roots of Christianity through Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and then make your determination. I am really not interested in exchanging Bible verses with you. I am content with the way things were ordered and established by Jesus Christ through His Church.
This has already been answered. Baptism by desire suffices for salvation, especially if it is explicit.
Again, infallibly dogmatic: Baptism is necessary for salvation. You cannot disprove the norm by the exception. Baptism of desire is necessary for salvation. Read St. Matthew's Gospel, the last few sentences of the last chapter.
De fide Dogma:
Baptism is necessary for salvation. This is the Biblical and historical view of all of Christianity.
De Fide dogma. Period. Lights out. End of story. St. Matthew, last couple of sentences of the last chapter of the Gospel.
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My guess is that he was simply mouthing the words given him by his speechwriter.
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