Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Mass: Its Sacrificial Meaning
Maronite Monks of Adoration ^ | March 2005

Posted on 05/23/2005 9:09:48 AM PDT by NYer

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last
To: eastsider

The Sacrifice of Isaac
Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio


21 posted on 05/23/2005 10:30:31 AM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
By definition, a priest is one who offers sacrifice. For Christ to be a priest "continually," he must be offering sacrifice "continually" -- i.e., Himself.
22 posted on 05/23/2005 10:38:07 AM PDT by eastsider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
So Jesus has to be this eternal offering in Heaven rather than High priest seated at the Majesty on High

He's both, not "rather than".

23 posted on 05/23/2005 10:41:00 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NYer

24 posted on 05/23/2005 10:44:26 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
The offering Jesus did was "once for all".

Already discussed. Hebrews is drawing a contrast between the sacrifices of the Old Law, which were repeated sacrifices most of which applied only to one individual, and Christ's sacrifice, which is one single offering for all mankind.

By the way, ever noticed Hebrews 13:10?

"We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat."

Wait ... "we," the Christians, have an altar, which is, by definition, a table for sacrifice, from which those who serve the [Jewish] tabernacle have no right to eat, obviously implying that Christians do have a right to eat from that altar.

Protestant commentaries fumblingly explain away that verse, saying that "altar" really means "cross" and "eat" is, uh, metaphor for ... um, er, "believe" ... yeah, that's it.

Catholic commentaries, OTOH, don't have to.

25 posted on 05/23/2005 10:47:10 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: murphE

He's not on the cross anymore. "It is finished."


26 posted on 05/23/2005 10:48:08 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: murphE

I love that pic...I gave copies of it to my 5th grade catechism class...they too were impressed.


27 posted on 05/23/2005 10:50:34 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: eastsider; Campion; newgeezer

Actually there is an aspect of that. Though only offered Himself once on the cross, there is another aspect of His offering that remains forever. He started out in the "form of God" Phil 2:6-11, but then ended up as a glorified human and no longer exists in the purely spiritual form of God. That change is permenant and forever. His very presence in Heaven as a glorified Human and lamb of God is a permanent condition. When I first read what you were saying I pictured Him doing some wierd ritual to offer himself or something. If you are still thinking that than I still disagree but there is a continual offering aspect to Him in Heaven that definitely does exist.


28 posted on 05/23/2005 10:51:11 AM PDT by biblewonk (Socialism isn't all bad.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer
He's not on the cross anymore. "It is finished."

From the perspective of heaven, all times are present, all things are seen, there is no past and no future. God is the Lord of all things and the servant of none, time included.

29 posted on 05/23/2005 10:51:11 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Sacris solemniis
iuncta sint gaudia,
et ex praecordiis
sonent praeconia;
recedant vetera,
nova sint omnia,
corda, voces, et opera.

Noctis recolitur
cena novissima,
qua Christus creditur
agnum et azyma
dedisse fratribus,
iuxta legitima
priscis indulta patribus.

Post agnum typicum,
expletis epulis,
Corpus Dominicum
datum discipulis,
sic totum omnibus,
quod totum singulis,
eius fatemur manibus.

Dedit fragilibus
corporis ferculum,
dedit et tristibus
sanguinis poculum,
dicens: Accipite
quod trado vasculum;
omnes ex eo bibite.

Sic sacrificium
istud instituit,
cuius officium
committi voluit
solis presbyteris,
quibus sic congruit,
ut sumant, et dent ceteris.

Panis angelicus
fit panis hominum;
dat panis caelicus
figuris terminum;
O res mirabilis:
manducat Dominum
pauper, servus et humilis.

Te, trina Deitas
unaque, poscimus:
sic nos tu visita,
sicut te colimus;
per tuas semitas
duc nos quo tendimus,
ad lucem quam inhabitas.

At this our solemn feast
let holy joys abound,
and from the inmost breast
let songs of praise resound;
let ancient rites depart,
and all be new around,
in every act, and voice, and heart.

Remember we that eve,
when, the Last Supper spread,
Christ, as we all believe,
the Lamb, with leavenless bread,
among His brethren shared,
and thus the Law obeyed,
of all unto their sire declared.

The typic Lamb consumed,
the legal Feast complete,
the Lord unto the Twelve
His Body gave to eat;
the whole to all, no less
the whole to each did mete
with His own hands, as we confess.

He gave them, weak and frail,
His Flesh, their Food to be;
on them, downcast and sad,
His Blood bestowed He:
and thus to them He spake,
"Receive this Cup from Me,
and all of you of this partake."

So He this Sacrifice
to institute did will,
and charged His priests alone
that office to fulfill:
tn them He did confide:
to whom it pertains still
to take, and the rest divide.

Thus Angels' Bread is made
the Bread of man today:
the Living Bread from heaven
with figures dost away:
O wondrous gift indeed!
the poor and lowly may
upon their Lord and Master feed.

Thee, therefore, we implore,
o Godhead, One in Three,
so may Thou visit us
as we now worship Thee;
and lead us on Thy way,
That we at last may see
the light wherein Thou dwellest aye.


30 posted on 05/23/2005 10:52:12 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

= )


31 posted on 05/23/2005 10:54:57 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
When I first read what you were saying I pictured Him doing some wierd ritual to offer himself or something.

We know what the High Priest did on Yom Kippur. That may have been a "weird ritual," but it was a weird ritual directly prescribed and demanded by God, so who are we to judge?

Scripture doesn't describe in detail what it means for Jesus to offer himself continually to the Father in heaven. We probably couldn't comprehend it if it did. Our faith teaches us that the Mass makes that offering present on earth.

He started out in the "form of God" Phil 2:6-11, but then ended up as a glorified human and no longer exists in the purely spiritual form of God. That change is permenant and forever. His very presence in Heaven as a glorified Human and lamb of God is a permanent condition.

Exactly. You'll notice that when St. John sees Jesus in Revelation, he sees him "looking like a Lamb that had been slain".

32 posted on 05/23/2005 10:55:08 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Campion; newgeezer
Protestant commentaries fumblingly explain away that verse, saying that "altar" really means "cross" and "eat" is, uh, metaphor for ... um, er, "believe" ... yeah, that's it.

But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

No metaphor, just future glory. And definitely no need to turn back into Jews. No pepper shakers on sticks, no tall hats.

33 posted on 05/23/2005 10:56:01 AM PDT by biblewonk (Socialism isn't all bad.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Pange Lingua

Pange lingua gloriosi
Corporis mysterium,
Sanguinisque pretiosi,
Quem in mundi pretium
Fructus ventris generosi
Rex effudit Gentium.

Nobis datus, nobis natus
Ex inacta Virgine,
Et in mundo conversatus,
Sparso verbi semine,
Sui moras incolatus
Miro clausit ordine.

In suprema nocte coenae
Recumbus cum fratribus
Observata lege plene
Cibis in legalibus,
Cibum turbae duodenae
Se dat suis manibus.

Verbum caro, panem verum
Verbo carnem efficit:
Fitque sanguis Christi merum,
Et si sensus deficit,
Ad firmandum cor sincerum
Sola fides sufficit.

Tantum ergo Sacramentum
Veneremur cernui:
Et antiquum documentum
Novo cedat ritui:
Praestet fides supplementum
Sensuum defectui.

Genitori, Genitoque
Laus et jubilatio,
Salus, honor, virtus quoque
Sit et benedictio:
Procedenti ab utroque
Compar sit laudatio.
Amen. Alleluia.


Sing, My Tongue

Sing, my tongue,
The mystery of the glorious body,
And of the precious Blood,
Shed to save the world,
By the King of the nations,
The fruit of a noble womb.

Given to us, born for us,
From a stainless Virgin,
And having dwelt in the world,
Sowing the seed of the word,
He closed in a wonderful way,
The days of his habitation.

On the night of His last supper,
Reclining with His brothers,
The law having been fully observed
With legal foods,
He gives Himself as food with His
Own hands to the twelve.

The Word in Flesh makes true Bread
His Flesh with a word;
Wine becomes the Blood of Christ,
And if sense is deficient,
To confirm sincere hearts,
Faith alone suffices.

Then let us prostrate and
Venerate so great a Sacrament,
And let the old law yield
To the new rite;
Let faith stand forward to
Supply the defect of the senses.

To the Begetter and the Begotten,
Be praise and jubilation,
Health, honor, and strength,
And blessing too,
And let equal praise be to Him,
Who proceeds from Both.
Amen. Alleluia.


34 posted on 05/23/2005 10:56:43 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Campion

The Son is not omnipresent. The Bible says He is at the right hand of the Father. He is not on the cross.


35 posted on 05/23/2005 10:56:43 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Our faith teaches us that the Mass makes that offering present on earth.

I know it does, it's just misguided.

36 posted on 05/23/2005 10:57:09 AM PDT by biblewonk (Socialism isn't all bad.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

I love that hymn!


37 posted on 05/23/2005 10:57:44 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

??? I have no idea what you're connecting in that verse with Hebrews 13:10.

No metaphor, just future glory. And definitely no need to turn back into Jews. No pepper shakers on sticks, no tall hats.

Huh?

38 posted on 05/23/2005 10:57:46 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: murphE

I love all poems and hymns written by Thomas Aquinas...this one is a great one!


39 posted on 05/23/2005 10:58:37 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer
The Son is not omnipresent.

His humanity isn't; his divinity is.

The Bible says He is at the right hand of the Father. He is not on the cross.

God is not bound or constrained by his creations. Time is one of his creations. That's "basic monotheism 101". God sees and knows all things as present.

40 posted on 05/23/2005 10:59:29 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson