Posted on 05/22/2005 12:13:51 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
So if someone talks about the "God is Love" crowd, you'd identify yourself with that group?
I know I would. How about you?
Was it on David's Psalms or the morality of David? Most people are familiar with Psalms 23 or 150. How many are familiar with the many other Psalms where David asks God to go after the bad guys?
Would you number yourself among the "God is Love" crowd?
He based it on the life of David from I and II Samuel.
Would I count myself among those who say that God's chief characteristic is love? No way. IF I HAD TO PICK a chief characteristic of God I would say holiness and everything revolves around His holiness. God wants us to be like Him, HOLY, and He helps us to become holy because of His great love for us. It is His great desire and our esteem privilege that He wants to raise us up to be like Him.
And He'll do whatever it takes to make sure that we become holy, chastening us where He wills, throwing trials and temptations in our path to make us grow, leading us where He wills and providing fruit in our lives so that we may see His great works. He is caring and nurturing because of His love.
To say that God is Love and everything revolves around that characteristic is to say God lowers Himself to man; forgiving man and overlooking this or that because of our Lord Jesus' sacrifice. Man struggles through life and God helps him here and there to overcome the burden of life until he dies and is glorified. Man makes the choices and God helps him out of his blunders. What's more is that God will help anyone out at any time because He loves us all. Not only is this not supported by the evidence around us, this is a nonsensical view that is nowhere to be found in scriptures.
I've noticed you did not answer my question. I happen to agree with the author which you posted:
Do you? If we turn on that path of holiness God will chasten us because of His love and His vengeance.
And, BTW, I bet this guy isn't even a Calvinist. Fancy that.
Many pastors (not necessarily yours) reduce the Old Testament down to books of morals rather than how God interacts with mankind. So we hear sermons like, "Well if David had been out doing the Lord's business instead of looking at Bathsheba..." instead of understanding the ramifications of the four-fold judgment David pronounced on himself for his sins. That is far too complex. YIKES!
To get a good understand of David's thoughts I would suggest going through the Psalms, one per day, meditating on what precisely is being stated. Pay careful attention to what David asks from the Lord especially for his enemies. They're not all by David but you'll get the idea.
Eschatology is one of my weaknesses. I don't buy into the pre-treb stuff but I can't argue with it. However, if your looking for Biblical examples of God displaying His wrath BEFORE the end times there are lots of examples starting with Gen 6.
Psst!
Even God's anger, judgment, and vengeance are premised on His love. Therefore, the central aspect of God's character is upheld.
Make no mistake, though, God's love is the real deal. None of this mamby-pamby, hollywood, mealy-mouthed , vascillating uncertainty that today's world is so stuck on.
God's chief characteristic is love. It's simple scripture.
Yes I agree with the author. The author is right on the money.
I would also dare to say that he would have numbered himself among the "God is Love" crowd.
And how many times in how many different ways must I answer your question.
How about once.
Do you number yourself among the "God is Love" crowd?
You have never said yes or no.
So what is it? Yes or no?
The book does not say that God is a God of Love and that God is a God of vengeance.
The book says verbatim, twice, "God is Love." The book NEVER says "God is Vengeance."
It also says that sometimes God exacts vengeance, and judgment, and that sometimes He's angry, etc.
Agreed.
Maybe it is time to define terms like "wrath", "love",
"justice", "judgment" etc. so that we are all on the same page when we discuss this Zephaniah passage, or will that take all the fun out of this exercise?
We've been here before on this discussion so there is no need to rehash this all out. You think God is a God of love but I don't know how vengeance falls under this paradigm or how God chastises men for following their free will. You must not agree with the author's statement.
I personally believe God is a God of holiness with love being an attribute. God says:
Is God more love than He is holy? Is God holiness based upon His love?
It is a great truth that God is love and those who know the Father through the Son understand this. But while I have always believed in God's great love and compassion, to ignore the vengeance of God throughout the scripture is to eliminate about two-thirds of the Bible and, IMO, is a grave mistake.
Zephaniah states:
That should give one pause I would think.
So God loves the damned to [eternal] death?
"Zephaniah states:
"...And I will punish the men who are stagnant in spirit, Who say in their hearts, "The Lord will not do good or evil"" Zeph 1:12
That should give one pause I would think."
Actually, after considering it, and being an Arminian, I don't think you would find a single Arminian in any of the churches I've attended who would say that the Lord will do evil. Arminians just don't think that God would do anything evil.
Colin.
Please add me to your list.
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