The Mother of the Son: The Case for Marian Devotion

Catholic Exchange ^ | May 11, 2005 | Mark Shea

[SoothingDave]

,i>An arian, gnostic, and maybe even a nestorian would say something like that. There is a tendency among Christians who do not recognize the Mother of God to slide into one form of heresy or another concerning the natures of Christ.

Yep. Scratch a Maryphobe and find a deficient Christology.

Funny how Zuriel's obvious flaws will go uncriticised by the Protestants as long as he supports their anti-Marian views.

SD

[SoothingDave]

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work."

You become completely equipped for a life that pleases God through the study of and obedience to the Scripture.

If only it said that, your argument would be much easier. But no matter how hard you wish, this is not what the words say.

Scripture is necessary, yes. But this does not argue that Scripture is sufficient.

SD

[SoothingDave]

The Catholic Church attaches a pretty heavy burden along with that good news.

Of course it's much easier to believe that we need do nothing with our talents. Didn't Jesus have a parable about that?

Have a good day as well.

SD

[RnMomof7]

Just for the record, we do look to Jesus. We ALSO look to Mary because she is one of God's perfect creations. I am only stating this because I feel like non-Catholics think we don't worship God at all because we do love Mary so much.

Why do you "look" to her at all, when she "points the way to Jesus"?

[RnMomof7]

If Mary really points at Jesus why don't you look there instead of at her?
Gee, maybe cause her soul magnifys the Lord?

That is not really an answer Dave, If her PURPOSE is to point to Jesus why not looks to Him as she desires and not to her?

[wagglebee]

From Webster's 1828 Dictionary, espoused is defined as: Betrothed; affianced; promised in marriage by contract; married; united intimately; embraced.
http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=espoused
De Montfort was likely (and we will never precisely know) using the word espoused in sense that the Holy Spirit was "united intimately" with Mary in the Virgin Birth. Nowhere does de Montfort claim that the Mary was the wife of the Holy Spirit.

[SoothingDave]

That is not really an answer Dave, If her PURPOSE is to point to Jesus why not looks to Him as she desires and not to her?

Maybe cause when something is magnified it is easier to see.

See Zuriel's 237 above for how having a confused Christology and denial of Marian titles go hand in hand.

SD

[wagglebee]

I am still curious whether or not you were planning to respond to my questions in #274? Or way you quote from de Montfort all you have?

[conservonator]

Thanks for the link! I have it book marked.

[conservonator]

That's just plain cruel! ;-D

Ha!

[conservonator]

Sounds like some really good quotes, but no one digs Mary like De Montforte.

JPII may have come close to St Louis DeMonforte.;)

[biblewonk]

Mary is called "blessed" three times in the first chapter of Luke (by the angel Gabriel, by Elizabeth and by herself), in fact she is referred to as "blessed" AMONG women and we are told that henceforth ALL generations shall call her "blessed". Assuming you agree that the Bible does say this, I have a few questions: 1. Were Adam and Eve created free from Original Sin? 2. If Mary is "blessed among women" does that mean that she is superior to Eve in all ways? 3. Do you believe and so proclaim that Mary is blessed?

I'm a little busy here at work so I was taking things in smaller pieces.

1: Yes.
2: Not at all.
3: Not by your definition of blessed, no not at all. I believe it fully according to a biblical understanding of the term though.

[biblewonk]

JPII may have come close to St Louis DeMonforte.;)

Please point me to his writings if they are as "rich" as De Mon's. I'd love to add them to my list.

[biblewonk]

if you can find Biblical evidence of something else let me know.

This really threw me because I've been saying for quite a while now that there is no biblical evidence for RC's Marianism.

[RnMomof7]

Please. Mom why don't you just read the parts of scipture that include Jesus. You ought to say because the whole thing is about Jesus right? And you do read the whole thing right? Because there's richness and texture in that depth of knowledge. Same thing with Mary, meditating on the grace of Mary enriches greatly. I'm sure you enjoyed the Passion of the Christ. Mary's part wasn't small was it...

I do not light candles to Moses or David thee is a difference of which I am sure you are aware.

St. Bernard wrote Holy Scripture was written for Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary.

It occurred to me the other day how the uniqueness of Jesus could be overwhelmed by a devotion to Mary

Most see and understand that the ark of the covenant is a type of Christ.
Now it is a type of Mary ( with the bowing angels and the mercy seat on top)

Scripture tells us that Jesus was born without sin
Now Mary is born without sin

Scripture tells us that Jesus is the judge and in Revelations he says He has the keys to the Kingdom
now it is said that Mary has the keys to the Kingdom

Jesus is said to be the one mediator between God and man..

Now Mary is the Mediatrix

Jesus is the Reedemer of men
Now Mary is Co Redeemer

Jesus was resurrected
Now Mary is "assumed"

Jesus is the final judge but St. Bonaventure says no one gets into heaven except that Mary let them in

Christ is the refuge of sinners.. yet that is one of her titles, Mary refuge of sinners

. It is God that shows mercy, yet a title of Mary is "lady of mercy"

Write on, that is not pointing to Christ in my opinion,, it is all pointing at her

[conservonator]

Please point me to his writings if they are as "rich" as De Mon's. I'd love to add them to my list.

Enjoy!

[RnMomof7]

Maybe cause when something is magnified it is easier to see.

So magnifying Mary makes Christ easier to see?

Maybe protestants just have better eyesight :)

[ksen]

JPII may have come close to St Louis DeMonforte.;)

I bet Mary never stopped a bullet for DeMontfort..........maybe an arrow though.......