THE SECRET OF POPE JOHN PAUL II’s SUCCESS

The truth is that John Paul was far more focused on his own musings

Perhaps that is true, but exaggerations or even outright (if unintended) falsehoods do not help the trads prove their case.

no catechism classes use them anymore.

The Trent Catechism was never used by catechism classes, at least widely. It was directed towards priests and assumes a level of theological knowledge beyond that enjoyed by most laity (especially children). The Baltimore Catechism was already out of use almost entirely by 1990 - it wasn't JP II's fault, as others have pointed out. In fact, the CCC is not supposed to replace all other catechisms anyway - JP II's letter in the front says that explicitly. And Ratzinger stated openly that the Pius X Catechism was still perfectly appropriate for use. A much better perspective on the good work that JP II did in promulgating the CCC is here, from an address at the Wanderer Forum in 1993.

What all this amounts to, of course, is that, with the advent of the Catechism, it is once again made clear beyond all possible doubt that the Church which is about to launch into the Third Millennium is still the Catholic Church of all the ages. So from now on the appropriate response to the tired old taunt that this or that point of orthodoxy is "pre-conciliar" will be that heterodoxy is "pre-Catechism." ...
The Catechism simply yields nothing to their demands. Not one article of faith is demythologized, muddied or called in question. Not one moral norm is discarded or compromised. And they know it!
As the old maxim says, scripta manent: what is written remains. And nowhere is this truth more relevant than when the Catholic Church publishes a universal catechism. That of the Council of Trent "remained" as a source of life-giving truth for four centuries, and that of Vatican II will certainly not be here today and gone tomorrow.

PS: Those who think of the old catechisms as "subversive" generally do the same of the new one.

Your point is well taken in that some of us tend to assign more blame to John Paul then he deserves, myself included.

This being said, nearly every facet of the way we practiced our faith for so long has been dramatically altered by him almost single handedly - putting his wisdom and piety above all of his predecessors. His intentions may have been very good, but the results have been beyond awful. If some or even most of the blame isn't assignable to him, there exists the feeling among many of us that "My Church underwent a full scale revolution and all I got was this lousy t-shirt".

Those who think of the old catechisms as "subversive" generally do the same of the new one.

Well then nearly the entire US Episcopate is corrupt, because not only are the other catechisms ignored, they're forbidden in many cases.

His singular mind simply was incapable of producing anything comparable to the depth, wisdom and intelligence of those that existed.

Yes. Poor ol' Pope John Paul the Great. (Although, even his enemies, begrudingly, concede his personal holiness). But, let's not forget he had to struggle to get by with only a Doctorate in Philosophy and a Doctorate in Theology whereas John Vennari has neither, is a schismatic, and writes for a paper openly in opposition to the Living Magisterium Divinely Established by Jesus.

Still, the Pope did pretty good considering his innumerable handicaps.

I find it "interesting" that liberal traditionalists attack the Living Magisterium with the same ferocity and frequency as protestants used to. I wonder if the Libertrads ever think about how pathetic and hysterically silly they appear racing to catch-up with 16th century schismatic sentiments?

Just speaking for myself, when I think of Libertrads pontificating, I get a picture in my mind of the Monty Python skit about the Upperclass Twit of the Year competition where moronic, self-important, buck-toothed, preening, idiot-faced, buffons named Nigel etc ran around a stadium field ineptly trying to jump over a rope, committ suicide ect

I wonder what Libertrads have to say about their schismatic orientation when it is compared to the Bible

The First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians Chapter 1

1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes a brother,

2 To the church of God that is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that invoke the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place of theirs and ours.

3 Grace to you and peace, from God our father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I give thanks to my God always for you, for the grace of God that is given you in Christ Jesus:

5 That in all things you are made rich in him, in all utterance and in all knowledge;

6 As the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,

7 So that nothing is wanting to you in any grace, waiting for the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

8 Who also will confirm you unto the end without crime, in the days of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful: by whom you are called unto the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren, of you, by them that are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. (libertrads: "I am of St. Pius X, not Pope's John 23 - Pope John II)

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The Old Testament

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men."93 "Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,"94 the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."95

123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. The Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).

Sorry but I don't pay attention to virulent nasty anti-trads anymore, especially those who I know nothing about. Much of the time you're discovered to be trolls and liars.

Heck you're openly lying now. The people who you stand next to at church are the Kerry voters, pro-aborts, liturgical revolutionaries, leftists, guitar psalmists, dancing nuns etc., yet you call traditionlists liberals - as if by you saying it makes it true.

As I've said all along, committed trad-haters have some kind of psychosis. They call themselves Catholics but act in the most un-Christian ways imaginable. The Stephen Hand goons have come in here under assumed names seeking very personal information on posters. It appears sinkspur's whole life on FR has been nothing but a spiteful lie.

In contrast, most of the trads know each other via email or by name. We regularly correspond and many of us are known by our real life identities here on this forum. Many of the posters here know who I am, where I go to church, how I live my life and where to find me. The same can be said for many others.

Please take your nastiness somewhere else, I don't want your stinkiness near me. I'm not interested in anything you have to say and don't care to correspond with another hunk of online New Order, trad-hating mystery meat.

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