What does the Bible Say About the "Immortal Soul"?

**The bible says that this happens when Christ returns:**

Really?

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For this we groan, earnistly desiring to be clothed with our house which is from heaven:
If so being clothed we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up in life.
ll Chor 5:1-5.

No mention of this happening only when Christ returns.

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive and gave gifts to men.
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also decended into the lower parts of the earth? ( Past tense)
He that decended is the same also that ascended up into the heavens, that he might fulfil all theings....
Ephesians 4:8-10

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive; Thou hast received gifts for men; yea for the rebelious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.
Psalms 68:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison;
Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing...
I Peter 3:18-20

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For this we groan, earnistly desiring to be clothed with our house which is from heaven:

There is no time frame presented here. In fact, Paul makes it clear that he did not yet have this "building"...but had God's promise, God's spirit, as a pledge that he would get this:

2Co 5:5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

God gives his spirit to Christians as a pledge that they will receive an incorruptible body.
This happens at the last trumpet, when Christ returns:

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

The 7th angel sounds the trumpet. It's the last trumpet to sound:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the same event as:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

As the bible says, this is the time when Christians become incorruptible. Before this we are corruptible.

***This happens at the last trumpet, when Christ returns:***

So, where did Christ get that train of captives when he ascended on high. Remember, past tense.

The Bible answers this question too. Although mankind is physical, subject to death, the good news is that God promises a resurrection to eternal life to everyone who repents, worships God and accepts Jesus as the Messiah and His sacrifice. The first resurrection to immortality will take place when Christ returns to establish God's Kingdom on this earth.

1 posted on 05/06/2005 7:37:29 PM MDT by DouglasKC

How do you read these verses from the oldest book in the Bible ?

Job 19: 25 "As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.

26 "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;

27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

B’Shem Y’shua

chuck

So, where did Christ get that train of captives when he ascended on high. Remember, past tense.

You're misinterpreting that verse and reading quite a bit into it if you think it's referring to Christ leading a train of people to heaven. Paul quotes Psalms:

Eph 4:7 But to each one of us was given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Because of this, He says, "Having gone up on high, He led captivity captive," and gave "gifts to men." Psa. 68:18

The verse says that he led captivity captive. What are people captive to? Sin:

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

What the verse means is that the sacrifice of Christ freed us from the captivity of sin. The captivity of sin is being held captive by Christ. We are no longer captive to sin.

How do you read these verses from the oldest book in the Bible ?
Job 19: 25 "As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26 "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!

Hi Chuck,

I read that as Job foreseeing his resurrection.

Hallel ujah !!
Amain!

B'Shem Y'shua
chuck

**You're misinterpreting that verse**

Not when compared with ...

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison;
Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing...
I Peter 3:18-20

It then makes perfect sense. So, who did Christ preach to? soul sleepers?

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1Pe 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
1Pe 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

This is referring to demons that God is keeping bound until judgment, not to people. The wording in 1 Peter is kind of confusing, but 2 Peter makes it clearer:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

And what did Jesus mean when he cautioned the apostles to allow the 'dead' to go and bury 'the dead'?

The tricotomous view asserts those who were burying the dead were separated spirit from soul, dead to God spiritually,...while those they were burying were dead, separated body from their souls.

2 issues of import.

1st we know there is cognition after the bodily death even for those who were unbelievers, from the story of Lazarus and the rich man. That is a testimonial regarding the destination of unbelieving souls prior to the ascension.

2ndly, After Christ died on the cross, he descended to Hades for three days in his soul, he relinquished his spirit as a man to the Father while he was on the Cross,..the Father, who had breathed the spirit life into him...after three days, the Holy Spirit reunited His soul to the body and the Spirit to the body while in the tomb, and He resurrected.

He then walked the earth for 40 days, body, soul and spirit, in a resurrected body, then ascended to heaven where He resides today, still also as man and divine, the Firstfruits. It is important to remember that today He is still man and divine in heaven seated at the right hand of the Father.

We are born in the body, with an old sin nature associated with the physical body. Our bodies have physical perception which feed information to our souls. Our souls are our thinking processes, but not all thoughts are soulish.

The soul processes thoughts and with our volition we are able to make active decisions.

We may exercise faith, completely non meritoriously to our thinking or to ourselves, but directed at God. He is faithful and just and may use that lack of work and simple faith to make it efficacious for the regeneration of the spirit. We then are born again in the spirit.

Those who are not yet born of the spirit will consider such things as foolishness, because they are separated from the spirit where without faith they simply act soulishly, upon perception of bodily things and the cosmic system of counterfeit worldly things based upon self and anything independent of God.

One interpretation of the train of captives, is that prior to the atonement of sin and redemption provided by Christ, the actual payment of sin had not yet been performed, rather the Old Testament sacrificial system merely foreshadowed the actual only true sacrifice that would allow a true resurrection. Those souls from Old Testament times were provided for by His logistical grace in Abraham's Bosom or Paradise as a compartment of Hades separate from the Torments by a fixed gulf mention in the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

Upon the resurrection of Christ, others also arose from the grave, who had previously been held captive by the grave.

**This is referring to demons that God is keeping bound until judgment, not to people**

Now, if this be so, consider this.
When Christ died on the cross he must have went into a form of "soul sleep".
So, how did he preach to anyone, human or demon, while asleap?

And does belief in this cancel my salvation? No!

Now, if this be so, consider this. When Christ died on the cross he must have went into a form of "soul sleep". So, how did he preach to anyone, human or demon, while asleap?

He didn't preach to anyone while he was in the grave. He was dead. If Jesus Christ was not *really* dead then his death and sacrifice were meaningless. If he was not really dead then his resurrection three days later was nothing but a show for the benefit of his disciples. It was a miracle and a sign because Jesus Christ was truly, really made into a human and he really truly died.

1 Peter 3:20 and 2 Peter 2:5 both mention Noah because that is when the pre-incarnate Christ proclaimed to the spirits in prison.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1Pe 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
1Pe 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Christ had a spiritual body before he became flesh. The greatest judgement of mankind occurred during Noah's time. Verse 20 says that he was proclaiming to the spirits in prison during the time when Noah was constructing the ark. He returned to spirit body after he was resurrected.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And does belief in this cancel my salvation? No!

I never said it did.

Death isn't nonexistence,..it is a state of existence involving separation. Most people associate the death of a person with the separation of their souls from the domain we reside within. The wrong thought is to assume the soul no longer exists. This is the fallacy of existentialists.

The pain of death to those alive is simply the separation from the soul of the person who has died. Those who read into that separation as an erasure of existence merely further frustrate themselves and promote their own misery.

Death isn't nonexistence,..it is a state of existence involving separation.

I would agree with this on its face. Death today isn't permanent non-existence because God promises a resurrection for the both the just and the wicked:

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

However, the second death IS permanent:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Again, that is what is meant by John 3:16:

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Perish versus eternal life. Not eternal life in one form versus eternal life in another form.

When God created our first parents, Adam and Eve, he did not set down and give them a crash course in theology. Their worry was for the here and now. As time progressed the prophets gave hints that there was more than meets the eye.

Isaiah said
Hell from beneath is moved to meet thee at thy coming: It stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from the thrones all the kings of the nations.
They All they shall speak and say to thee, Art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like unto us?
Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viol: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isaiah 14:9-11...How could these kings speak if they were asleap?

The Psalmist gives hints of the Lord taking us to Glory and we also fly away.

Revelation gives us many views of the 24 elders,
And they sung a new song saying, Thou art worthy to take the book and open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE ANDPEOPLE AND NATION.
And has made us kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This is about 14 chapters before the FIRST RESURECTION takes place. Then there are the thousands who came out of great tribulation and the souls of those slain under the alter who must wait for the rest to be slain.
They definitly were NOT asleap. and again this is way before the first resurection.

I know of a church that is very fundamentally sound in their doctrine except on ONE point. They took a few obscure verses and now preach universal reconcilliation.
All based on a few well spun verses.

Revelation gives us many views of the 24 elders, And they sung a new song saying, Thou art worthy to take the book and open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE ANDPEOPLE AND NATION. And has made us kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
This is about 14 chapters before the FIRST RESURECTION takes place. Then there are the thousands who came out of great tribulation and the souls of those slain under the alter who must wait for the rest to be slain. They definitly were NOT asleap. and again this is way before the first resurection.

The 24 elders are never mentioned as being human. They are in fact angelic beings.

In Revelation 7 there is a "great multitude" of humans that came out of the tribulation. But there is no time frame given for the vision that John saw in Revealation 7. We already know from scripture that people who are resurrected to eternal life at the coming of christ are either asleep at his coming (dead) or alive at his coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So from scripture either you are asleep in Christ, dead, or alive at the coming of Christ when eternal life is granted.

To Revealation:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Since scripture cannot contradict itself these undoubtedly are those who are part of the first resurrection who are given eternal life at the 2nd coming of Christ and live and reign with him on earth for a thousand years:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

***The 24 elders are never mentioned as being human. ***

But they state that they were REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST! When Did the blood of Christ save angels? (Shades of Origen)!

***So from scripture either you are asleep in Christ, dead, or alive at the coming of Christ when eternal life is granted.***

So, why would God allow an evil person to die, then bring him back just so he could judge and kill him again?

Whereas the Christian's soul goes to be with the Lord since Christ has already paid the penalty for it. At his return he will resurect the body, change it to a glorified body and the evidence of death will be permanently destroyed. and then will be a judgement of rewardings, not to death or life (Bema).

And Paul again states that ...
For me to live is Christ and to die is gain....
...For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and TO BE WITH CHRIST, which is far better. Phillipians 1:21-23.

***The 24 elders are never mentioned as being human. ***
But they state that they were REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST! When Did the blood of Christ save angels? (Shades of Origen)!

The four living creatures and the 24 elders are singing about Christians who are redeemed by the blood of Christ:

Rev 5:8 After he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders knelt down before him. Each of them had a harp and a gold bowl full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.
Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

This is the NASB translation. The King James does use "us" instead of them, but it's a mistranslation. If it really is "us" then we have to assume that Christ's blood redeemed the four beasts and that these 4 beasts came from every nation, tribe tongue and people. These creatures look like this:

Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day...

It's tough to explain where these type of heavenly creatures would have come from on earth. Besides that, Jesus Christ says that no man has gone to heaven:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And lastly Paul tells us in 1 Timothy that only Christ has immortality, not any man:

1Ti 6:14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Ti 6:15 which He will bring about at the proper time--He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

So, why would God allow an evil person to die, then bring him back just so he could judge and kill him again?

Good question. The bible says that there is a resurrection of the just and the unjust so this much is true:

Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Christ says that not everyone has been judged yet...the resurrection plays a part in judgement for some:

Joh 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
Joh 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

So it DOES happen. I believe that the sacrifice of Christ redeemed all men, gave all men, those who lived in the past before Christ's incarnation and those who never heard of Christ, a chance for judgement by teaching them about christ at the great white throne. Those who reject Christ or rejected Christ in their life are given the second death:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.