CHRISTIANITY EXPLODING WORLDWIDE; 3RD WORLD SENDING MISSIONARIES [V ENCOURAGING DOC]

ANDREW STROM VIA MERI BURLINGAME EMAIL LIST ^ | 28 APR 2005 | WORLD NET DAILY

[PetroniusMaximus]

*** How do you know the Bible is a product of the Holy Spirit?***

May I add that we also know by the internal witness of the Scriptures.

Old Testament authenticates the New Testament because it predicts it's contents and the NT authenticates the OT because it quotes it extensively as a source of unquestioned authority.

Jesus also offered a form of authentication of his message in John 7:12, 14-19a in the face of a questioning crowd.

"Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law."

Jesus offers a test to those who wish to know whether his teaching was authentically form God of whether he made it up. He claims that those who are willing to do Gods will be shown by God whether Jesus teachings are authentic or not.


Finally to address something your getting at in your posts...

The authenticity of the Bible, being a first principle, is ultimatley indemonstrable.

If I may quote...

"To deny circularity when it comes to an ultimate authority is to subject oneself to an infinite regress of reasons. If a person holds to a certain view, A, then when A is challenged he appeals to reasons B and C. But, of course, B and C will certainly be challenged as to why they should be accepted, and then the person would have to offer D, E, F, and G, as arguments for B and C. And the process goes on and on. Obviously it has to stop somewhere because an infinite regress of arguments cannot demonstrate the truth of one's conclusions. Thus, every worldview (and every argument) must have an ultimate, unquestioned, self-authenticating starting point."
Michael Kruger - "The Sufficiency of Scripture in Apologetics" www.tms.edu

[onedoug]

Wonderful news. Though with the hope that coming to God is lived beyond being merely stated.

[Quix]

In my experience and observation,

those close to the earth and the sufferings of eeking out a living . . . and those who may be urban but have also had a very rough time of life . . . those make some of the most earnest and faithful Christians. Those given to 'civilized' 'putting on of aires' etc. can become as contaminated with materialism etc. as Americans.

Was repeatedly humbled and blessed by the brokenness, faithfulness, worshipfulness, honorableness of very simple folk who volunteered to risk their lives in behalf of my safety.

[Marysecretary]

How exciting. I know God's moving; we've had enough prophetic words over the past few years to get a sense of things. Yes, I believe it's beginning, too, Quix.

[Marysecretary]

They follow Christ's teachings in the Bible, probably more closely than most denominational churches. They meet in homes, etc. I'm not saying that's for me, I love my church and its people and its teachings, but not everyone does.

[Marysecretary]

According to the folks in Africa whose pastor died and was resurrected, he's FINE. He was dead for three days and in a mortuary, but God raised Him up and fixed everything. He's doing great.

[Marysecretary]

When God begins to shake a nation, he begins with the CHURCH. The church is almost a dead institution these days. Many are not but so many are. They go through their rituals and printed prayers and there's no life in the Spirit there. He finds his place more often than not among the poor and poorly educated folk who just believe what the Bible says.

[Marysecretary]

And that's called legalism, trying to do all the right things to make it! God looks on the heart and not on our foolish rites, etc.

[Marysecretary]

They already are! We have a young couple from Brazil in our area who felt called by God to minister to the Americans in CNY. Very sweet couple who love the Lord and US. M

[Marysecretary]

Because the Bible tells us that it was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

[Quix]

Much agree.

Thanks.

Thanks as usual for your email fwds.

[Quix]

Great to hear.

Thanks.

Ever notice how the rock throwers usually slink away silently or at least ignore hard facts that flush their notions and assumptions down the proper porcelain fixture!

[Quix]

AMEN! SO TRUE.

[Quix]

And Holy Spirit confirmed with signs following such as mentioned above.

[mike182d]

Well then for what purpose are you asking whether you NEED to keep them? So that you will be accepted by God or so you will feel good about yourself?

Do you have an answer to my question?

The new requirements meet and exceed the old requirements. Every part of the Christian's life is the be holy. Our very bodies are a sacrifice to Him.
Do you think you can keep the other six days unholy?

No, but you're missing my point entirely. Yes, new requirements meet and exceed the old, which is why the Roman Church opted to celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday - not because we need not follow the Law anymore, but rather since Christ is fulfillment of the Law, we set aside, at the very minimum, this particular day in order to adore and worship Him. But...this change was not ordered by the Bible. It was ordered by men who were given the authority to make such changes to the Church.

My point is that if you feel there is any obligation to go to Church on Sunday, or to prohibit the sale of alcohol on Sunday, or not work on Sunday, you are following a tradition of men.

There is nothing concerning justification here, so please stay on topic.

Actually Paul in 1 Tim. quotes Luke, (or a variant of Matt.) and calls it "Scripture". Theories about the precise date of compilation of the Gospels are o­nly theories. Paul quotes the words of Christ as "Scripture". Many people are suprised to learn this.

Paul rarely tells stories of Christ's life. When he does, read very carefully what he prefaces each recollection with: "...as was handed down unto me." He never says "what I read" or "what is written" but rather he is recounting an event in Jesus' life based upon what he had been told by the Apostles. The whole of the Christian Church began with oral tradition, not the written Word, and the Apostles had the sole authority over the oral word.

This is not strictly true. "Scripture" as a source of final authority existed long before the Church in the form of the OT. Scripture predates the Church.

You keep confusing "Scriptures" and "Bible." They are not synonymous terms. When Jesus referred to the "Scriptures" in dialogue with Pharisees, He is talking strictly about the Old Testament. Yes, "Scriptures" predate the Church, but the Bible and the New Testament does not. The Church began at Pentecost and when the Holy Spirit came upon them in the upper room, a book didn't magically appear before their eyes with which to base all their teachings. Apostolic authority predates the New Testament and that is fact.

If you think you are incapable of understanding the Bible then WHY do you thing you are capable of understanding the Magesterium?

2 Peter 1:20-21
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."

[mike182d]

But you are trying to infer from the above that the Church therefore is somehow "over" the Scriptures and in so doing you seek to enhance the authority of the Church and decrease the authority of the Scriptures.

You imply that the Bible is somehow "over" the Church and the Church is somehow subject to it. If the Church has always been subjected to the Bible, what were the early Church fathers subjected to before the Bible even existed? Apostolic authority.

[mike182d]

They follow Christ's teachings in the Bible, probably more closely than most denominational churches.

Do they follow Christ's teachings to eat His flesh and blood, as they are true food and true drink, in order to have eternal life? Do they follow Christ's teachings that say the Apostles have the power to forgive and retain sins? Do they follow Christ's teachings that say the institutional Church (Peter) is the shepherd sent to feed His sheep while he is away?

[Marysecretary]

Yep. Only IN CHRIST do we find salvation and in HIM alone, not religious rites from any church. They may make us feel closer to Him but they don't save folks. Churches are full of legalistic junk that keeps us from knowing Christ in a personal way. He wants our willing hearts, hearts that will worship Him, not even our sacrifices will do without that.

[mike182d]

Because the Bible tells us that it was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit because it says it is?

A book isn't true because the book says it is. No offense, but that's logical nonsense. Any book could be "proven" true by that logic if only the words "this book is inspired by the Holy Spirit" were written in them. Heck, this post is inspired by the Holy Spirit. How can I prove this? Well, my post clearly states that it is...

Do you see the problem?

[Ff--150]

That's great-- happy for him