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Your Pastor: Shepherd or CEO?
New Horizons ^ | 2002 | T. David Gordon

Posted on 05/03/2005 1:55:42 PM PDT by suzyjaruki

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In this day of church surveys rather than pastoral calls, I thought this article was well worth sharing.
1 posted on 05/03/2005 1:55:46 PM PDT by suzyjaruki
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To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; AZhardliner; ...
Ping to GRPL!
2 posted on 05/03/2005 2:00:05 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: suzyjaruki


We want to be catered in everything ,so we lose our right to develop into becoming the ministry. We put all the spiritual responsibility on pastors thus forfeiting our right as Christians to mature and develop.We live in a world where getting ahead means moving up the ladder,no different than in the church.What happened to decreasing and Him increasing.Institutionalized Churches are Agenda orientated and revolve around positional parties. I think God wants us to be more intimate with each other,while coming together with no agenda but to seek Him and to share Christ with one another. It's time to move outside of the box and to grow in Christ.


3 posted on 05/03/2005 2:21:38 PM PDT by scottro (Cling to Jesus and to His promises.....)
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To: suzyjaruki
Your Pastor: Shepherd or CEO?

When a church files for tax exemption as a 501(c)(3), it becomes a non-profit corporation. It's just a short walk from there to having the pastor think of himself as a manager/CEO.

4 posted on 05/03/2005 2:27:11 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: scottro
I think God wants us to be more intimate with each other,while coming together with no agenda but to seek Him and to share Christ with one another.

This kind of coming together would include accountability.

Thanks for your comments.

5 posted on 05/03/2005 2:32:34 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: Alex Murphy
So true!

I have seen a refusal by someone to become a member of a church for this very reason.

6 posted on 05/03/2005 2:35:00 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: suzyjaruki

Yes I agree ,so when we don't forsake getting together with other Christians ,our walk with Christ will show itself. The hard part is trusting God to teach because we don't walk with each other daily, but we do need to go to battle for our brothers and sisters through prayer and relationship.


7 posted on 05/03/2005 2:41:09 PM PDT by scottro (Cling to Jesus and to His promises.....)
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To: Alex Murphy

When I left the institutionalized church ,the first thing we tried to do as believers were to try forming another organization,by getting a tax exempt. The problem with this is that it started to put rule upon rule. So if we wanted to give,it wasn't done freely but through the organization. Jesus Christ came to set us free so that we as believers would start to move from the heart without any motives but to follow him. God's gifts are present when we get together and there is no hiding out because we are starting to know each other like a family. Not an OFFICIAL membership but members of a bigger family with Jesus Christ written on our hearts. So hard for some to handle because people want you to be controlled and to fit into their system.


8 posted on 05/03/2005 2:56:17 PM PDT by scottro (Cling to Jesus and to His promises.....)
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To: suzyjaruki

Many large churches hire a business manager who reports to a board of trustees or elders elected by the membersip of the church so the Pastoral staff can concentrate on pastoring. It is not a pastor as CEO and the pastor.

Certainly, there are churches where the senior pastor controls everything, but it isn't Biblical and I wouldn't attend such a church. One might also contrast this with a denominational system where absentee overseers control virtually all the decisions of the local congregations through edicts. That is much worse.


9 posted on 05/03/2005 3:48:58 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: suzyjaruki

Good stuff. I'm a slow reader with little time, but from the little I've skimmed ("dehumanizing effects of Industrial Revolution... Overlookers not overseers), looks like this is worth a read...


10 posted on 05/03/2005 3:55:31 PM PDT by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: suzyjaruki

A great truth in today's churches. I think of some of the churches where, once the charismatic preacher has fallen (like Swagger or the Bakkers), the "ministry" falls and assets are sold off to entertainers.

11 posted on 05/03/2005 5:23:16 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: suzyjaruki

Does it make you feel bigger to degrade other people's churches?


12 posted on 05/03/2005 5:30:15 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: HarleyD
Harley,
The problem is not limited to large ministries and megachurches. Sometimes small congregations end up with men that focus on office administration instead of shepherding.
13 posted on 05/03/2005 6:16:29 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: Alex Murphy
Once again, you hit the nail on the head. We form an artificial entity called a corporations created by the state to take advantage of the limitation on personal liability and to have a perpetual life for financing purposes. We insure the entity against casualties and liability. We set financial budgets during the year and usually report the interim results in the church bulletin, (program or worship folder), and then have quarterly and annual BUSINESS meetings where reports are given. We take advantage of all local, state and federal tax exemptions, and the Pastor is an agent of the state for marriage purposes. We have buses and vans to run, programs to be administered, church to promote and a church plant to be maintained. The church employs personnel and has wage and tax filings and worker compensation insurance audits. And this is just a small to medium size church, up to 150 attenders.

Of course he is a CEO (Administrator) of a business. That is the model we have set up for the church. Our product is the Gospel and we measure our success by our attendance and budgets, and we merchandise it with books, CDs, movies, radio and television programs, cruises and tours of the holy land. We want him to preach to us, teach us, hold our hands, and assure us that we are part of the elect and the way we are living is alright. When he does all of this we give liberally and meet the budget and have a successful year and thank God.

Whether the church polity is independently, hierarchical or semi-hierarchical, whether its local government is authoritarian, Elder governed or member run it is still a business and ultimately, the final decision will be with the Pastor, by strength of personality, strength of conviction, strength of persuasion, strength of patience or just good at politics.
14 posted on 05/03/2005 6:40:22 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: jude24; blue-duncan; suzyjaruki; xzins; Corin Stormhands
Does it make you feel bigger to degrade other people's churches?

If these people spent half as much time extolling the virtues of their own empty churches instead of tearing down the ones that are filled, they might find that their own churches would begin to grow. But then if their churches grew, they might turn into - gasp - mega churches.

I got news for the naysayers:

(Acts 2:47 KJV) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Praising God = Happy Clappy
Having favor with all the people = Popular with the unwashed masses
And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved = Mega Churches

15 posted on 05/03/2005 6:56:54 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: suzyjaruki

We are having a problem with our pastor. He is not the shepherd I thought he was..


16 posted on 05/03/2005 7:04:49 PM PDT by k2blader (Immorality bites.)
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To: blue-duncan; Alex Murphy
Thank you for your thought-filled post.

We form an artificial entity called a corporations created by the state to take advantage of the limitation on personal liability

Lawsuits have certainly changed our freedom. Whenever the public is involved, a potential lawsuit is at hand. It is for protection that the corporation is formed in the first place. That is very sad.

17 posted on 05/03/2005 7:15:22 PM PDT by suzyjaruki (We love Him because He first loved us. 1John 4:19)
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To: k2blader; P-Marlowe
Maybe you could try helping him, rather than complaining on the internet to complete strangers?

Some pastors are great at teaching, but not at evangelism. Others have a heart for visitation, but are so-so preachers. I'm sure you have some particular talent you could help with, rather than sitting on your hands bemoaning about how bad of a pastor he is.

You have no place to complain if you are not actively involved in the ministry yourself. The Biblical model of leadership, while instituting particular leaders of the congregation, anticipates an active involved laity that is no less in the ministry than the pastor.

18 posted on 05/03/2005 7:20:07 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: P-Marlowe; jude24; blue-duncan; suzyjaruki; xzins; Corin Stormhands

We have nine pastors, each with a different gift/calling. A couple deal specifically with the business aspects of the church. They are not the senior pastors.

On the rare occasions when we see all nine pastors on the platform at once, I am amazed at the picture of completeness in ministry and how their gifts compliment each other.


19 posted on 05/03/2005 7:20:48 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (Will work for tagline.)
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To: Corin Stormhands
I see the same thing at my church.

There's two pastors, each with different temperments and strengths. The session of elders, too, fill in the pastor's holes.

20 posted on 05/03/2005 7:22:03 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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