Posted on 04/26/2005 10:19:24 AM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
How should I know? I'm Baptist, and have nothing against Catholics or Orthodox.
Personally, I think some huge "revival" meetings (if Catholics actually have such a thing, or its equivalent), as you put it, and sending out missionaries (LAY missionaries)would be a good thing for Roman Catholics to do in Europe. And hopefully many Protestant denominations will also turn out in force, too. And Orthodox, too, they're not exempt. All Christians should do their part.
Thank you for remembering that this is Holy Week for us.
God bless you and grant you many years.
I agree. Just mention the Pope though, and all of a sudden there is tension in the air. That's at least been my experience.
Carl Piepkorn, who has long since passed away wrote a series of comparative religion books that are outstanding. I'm not sure, but I think he might have been a Confessional Lutheran.
Good writer, good books, good guy!
"This is true - but it was to be expected after Germans lost the war. Soviets were not very nice to the colaborators. That is why many Western Ukrainians were evacuated by retreating German army."
Yes, collaborators with nazis got serious and deadly treatment. Even Russians who spent years in nazi POW camps were executed by stalin. He was butcher no doubt. He thought the POWs were turned into nazi spys while they were under nazi control.
He was a monster and paranoid one at that!
AMEN!!
That would be a good prayer for the Church tomorrow night!!
Have a wonderful week.
Fortunately, this is no longer the case, and Eastern Catholics reached postions of honor and respect under JPII that were very disproportionate to their being only 2% of the world's Catholics. This is a good thing. I would assume that the new Pope, whom I very much like, will carry on in the same vein.
If you had the opportunity to watch the Installation Mass, you will have noticed that the pope invited only the Patriarchs to accompany him down to the tomb of St. Peter where Benedict XVI incensed the tomb and prayed with the Eastern Patriarchs.
It didn't stop there. The Gospel was proclaimed first in Latin, then chanted in Greek accompanied by a Byzantine choir that chanted the response. Additionally, the new pontiff invited the Maronite Patriarch to concelebrate the Mass with him.
His respect for the Eastern Churches was evident during the funeral mass for JPII. During the week that followed, various groups were invited to offer a 'Novena' Mass at St. Peter's. The Eastern Churches offered the Thursday liturgy, with the Patriarch Sfeir (of the Maronite Catholic Church) officiating. It was awesome to see this liturgy in its purest form, accompanied by a Maronite Choir flown in from Kaslik, Lebanon for the occasion. The choir is composed of religous men and women, and authentic instruments were employed for the liturgy.
I have every confidence that Pope Benedict XVI will pursue the growth and recognition of that 2% Eastern catholic population. Catholics need to see and grow in their understanding that the Catholic Church extends well beyond the boundaries of the Latin Rite.
Thank you for your understanding.
"Technically you are correct, but in mentality Bible-believing Protestants are the closest to us. They are far closer to us than we would care to admit and they are far more Catholic than they would care to admit."
I suspect you'd find that the overwhelming number of Orthodox agree with you that in phronema, Roman Catholics are far closer to Protestants than to the Orthodox.
I saw some of it. But I thought all the Orthodox Clergy were in black. Those folks going to the tomb.... were they all in black? I did not think that was the case.
RE: Alexy ruled out the possibility of inviting Benedict to Russia in the near future, calling on the new pope to address the proselytizing of Orthodox followers by Catholic missionaries that he alleges went on during John Paul's reign.
Oooh, oooh, proselytizing! How evil! / sarcasm. I mean, look at the US, where churches go after converts from each other left and right. Speaking of which, let's see, which church has become one of the more aggressive ones in terms of seeking converts from long established churches? Which church brags extensively about its growth, almost as if calling coup?
You know what... my nephew said the same thing. I got his meaning... and I got yours. : ^ )
Anyone in black would be Orthodox, since they would have been present merely as visitors and would be wearing a bishop's everyday black "street dress." Anyone in colored vestments and participating in the services would have been Eastern Catholics under the jurisdiction of the Pope.
Excellent and objective observations.
Re: In fact, in my experience, most of the Orthodox who aren't are ex-Episcopalians or Southern Baptists who - in becoming Orthodox - found in the residue of anti-Uniatism a perfect (and, sadly, ecumenically acceptable) outlet for their anti-Catholicism.
Man, so harsh .... and so, so true!
How was your HOLY WEEK? Did any Orthodox Christians bash you that week?
As matter of fact, yes. Whereas, I am bashing no one here. I am simply rendering observations of harsh reality. Can't stand the heat?
I saw some clerics with crowns(?) and very colorful robes as well. But they did some things as part of the service. The clerics on the side did act like guests.
The services were VERY impressive.
Did the EOC clergy get a special tour as one poster stated?
Heat from you? HA! HA!!
Protestants and Native Americans know a thing or two about Roman Catholic heat/bon fires.
God knows all about them as well. HE will punish the people-roasters!! COUNT ON IT!!
Notwithstanding the fact that this is Holy Week, I just can't let this post go by without a comment, Deacon.
"While the Orthodox have retained many traditions from the first millenium, the "sensus catholicus" is not one of them. Their phronema is heavily influenced by centuries of autocephaly resulting in the psychology of contented local churches which are intrinsic to and co-extensive with the national identity and boundaries of mainly small near-Eastern countries."
Well, of course the largest nation on Earth is Orthodox, but lets let that one slide. As for the sensus catholicus, we certainly do have it. Whether I am in Greece, or Serbia, of Ghana, or Japan, or China, or Russia or Lebanon, or Australia or America or anywhere else on earth and go into an Orthodox church for the Divine Liturgy, or a devotion or to the home of Orthodox people, I find the exact same Faith, virtually the exact same liturgy (in fact the overwhelming number of Orthodox wouldn't notice any Liturgical differences and a non Orthodox would notice none for sure), the same fasts, same prayers, same feast days. We have a very profound sensus catholicus, deacon, rather more profound, I'll venture, than post Vatican II Roman Catholics.
"Consequently there is no sense of urgency or imperative in the Orthodox mentality to seek the unity of all Christ's followers."
Deacon, we pray, and have prayed, for unity of all Christians for over 1500 years at every Liturgy and at most other services and devotions. We did it tonight at the Nymphios service. When did Rome start doing that? I just checked my 1956 Missal and don't see it there.
"It has also effected the whole outlook on "mission" generally. Until relatively recently, the Orthodox Church had been a total dead duck with respect to the mission of Christ's Church. If you lack the "universal urge" then you have no need or desire to see the Gospel preached to the very ends of the earth."
Odd comment, deacon. Are you saying that because Orthodoxy holds to the definition of the Church that which +Isaac of Syria laid out, we aren't interested in missionising? Deacon, until the Fall of Constantinople, Orthodoxy was the mission center, greater even than Ireland. By then Russia had gotten into mission work too. But the real truth is that the missionising of the Western Churches came about mostly as a result of the imperialist policies of the Western European monarchies. The Faith came along with the flag and the sword, deacon. After the Fall of Constantinople, Deacon, what Orthodox lands had an imperial policy? Russia of course and Russia had a vbrant mission program until the 1917 revolution. What other Orthodox country, until after WWI, probably even until long after WWII could have had a mission program, Deacon? It is unfair of you to ascribe the religious rapacity of colonial powers to some spirtual urge to a sort of "universal", I assume universal church, urge. Other than in English colonies (and not really even there early on), the locals had very little say as to their religion.
" Instead the world is canonically divided up into territories and national boundaries...."
Indeed, by Ecumenical Councils. But wasn't it that paragon of Roman sanctity, Alexander VI who divided the non Christian world into two pieces, one for Catholic Spain and the other for Catholic Portugal in 1493? Lucky for us the English didn't want to play, Deacon.
"...which are either Christian or not, and woe betide anybody who crosses those boundaries, even if its to further the mission which Christ gave to us. Consequently the whole concept of "mission" can be distorted to the extent that it can be seen as a form of aggression, and missionaries seen as hostile invaders."
If I read you right, I congratulate you on your honesty. Are you saying that it is the mission of Roman Catholics to convert people in Orthodox lands? I thought you Romans accepted our sacraments and orders and recognized us as a particular Church within The Church...at least that is what +Benedict XVI has written. But if it is your job, then are you surprised that +Alexy might look askance on Rome's protestations about two lungs and sister churches?
"In their view, they have done alright without the Pope for a thousand years, why should they be in such a rush to change things?"
Spot on, Deacon, but make that 2000 years.
"You know what... my nephew said the same thing. I got his meaning... and I got yours. : ^ )"
I'm sure he is a perceptive young man...like his uncle! :)
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