Russian Orthodox Patriarch Reacts to Election of Benedict XVI

National Catholic Reporter ^ | April 25, 2005 | Stacy Meichtry

[kosta50]

One more thing: the "through the Son" is a temporal event, as implied in the New Testament (Acts). This is not the same eternal relationship of the Father, the Son and the Spirit that the Creed embodies. The Holy Spirit came from the heaven (Acts 2:2-4) in the form of fire (God's all-consuming love).

That eternal relationship is also scripturally clear in Acts 33

"Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear."

Therefore the Spirit proceeds from the Father to the Son, Who receives Him.

Notice also the "now" which is not there by accident. The now distinguishes the created time and space from the eternal relationship of the Triune God.

The Spirit is unmistakenly linked to the Father as the Origin of Him.

"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you" (Mt 10:20)

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me." (John 15:26)

[Lion in Winter]

As IF I cared what YOU, a jerk has to say or write. Your are a big DRIP!

Get lost you silly little pup!

[MarMema]

Geeze, I love that little hymn we do, and did tonight for the odes.
Do you think you use the same one?

[Agrarian]

I assume that you are talking about the irmosi sung at the beginning of each Ode of the Canon (e.g. at Ode I: "Of old Thou didst bury the pursuing tyrant beneath the waves of the sea. Now the children of those who were saved bury Thee beneath the earth, but with the maidens let us sing to the Lord, for gloriously has He been glorified.")

The most commonly used melody for these in the OCA are harmonized Znamenny chant. And they are indeed solemn and beautiful. The only time they are used in modern practice is on this weekend, so they have taken on a "seasonal" character.

We repeat these same irmosi (with a different canon) at Midnight Office to start the Pascal Vigil -- an echo of Holy Saturday's Matins, and bringing the Triodion to a close. With Matins of Pascha that begins immediately following, the Pentecostarion begins, and the entire Paschal season. Quite exciting!

[MarMema]

Yes! I really love that tune. I thought it was Znamenny. And it was repeated many many times. The one that comes to mind was the one about Jonah being in the whale...

Thank you. Some day I am going to tape our music at church because nothing I buy ever sounds as lovely to me.

[Agrarian]

Yes, for some reason that one (the irmos of Ode 6) is the most memorable one for me, too:

Jonah was caught but not held fast
in the belly of the whale.
He was a sign of Thee
who hast suffered and accepted burial.
Coming forth from the beast as from a bridal chamber,
he called out to the guard:
"By observing vanities and lies you have forsaken your own mercy."

[Agrarian]

"And it was repeated many many times."

If done properly, that melody (a tone 6 Znam canon melody) should be sung 16 times in the course of the canon (with slight variations, depending on the ode.)

The irmos is sung at the beginning of the canon, the troparia are read, and then the irmos is sung again at the end of the ode as the katavasia. Then, the irmos of the next Ode begins...

Back in olden times, each Ode had its own melody (related within the tone, but distinct), and all of the troparia within the ode were sung antiphonally to that melody.

Not done that way anymore. The only canons ever sung in their entirety these days are the Paschal canon (in some churches) and the Paraklesis canon in Greek churches during the Dormition fast. We just don't have the patience for something that long at Matins services out in parish life, and most churches don't have the trained chanters even if they did have the stomach for it -- you just couldn't do it with a full choir, too much work to set the music.

The art has been completely lost in the Russian tradition because of the rise of choral music -- the only place it lives on is probably in Athonite and a few other traditional Greek monasteries.

[MarMema]

Thank you.

On another note we were very early and I had the most wonderful discussion with a fellow EO this evening about an icon I recently purchased- Transfiguration - and the concept of Uncreated Light. He told me something I had not known, that Palamas used this icon to dispel western incorrect thinking?

[Agrarian]

Icons certainly are a part of our Holy Tradition, and can be used as "evidence" for what the church taught and teaches.

I have never heard this about St. Gregory Palamas. I'd be interested in a reference, since he very much is a favorite saint of mine. A volume of his sermons was recently published. Very good stuff!

I can't think how that icon could have been used in the Palamite controversies, though. I don't see how one could distinguish in that icon between created or uncreated light... But it's late.

[GOP_1900AD]

There is nothing worse than an old man who thinks he's still a big, bad tough a#$. It's actually quite pathetic. Simmer down, buddy.