HOW SIGNS OF THE TIMES RELATE TO THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING [PLUS RELATED ARTICLES N THRD]

PRE-TRIB RESEARCH STUDY GROUP ^ | UNDATED | THOMAS ICE

[Quix]

Can certainly understand the feeling.

If and when--it's convenient, would be interested.

Thanks.

[Quix]

That probably describes my position better than I have.

Thanks.

What a tagline! But would it solve anything? Other, perhaps, than having to learn Spanish quite as quickly?

[Concentrate]

Hey Quix- I can't read all that stuff. Can you sum up all that in 100 words or less? Thanks.

[Quix]

Not me; not very soon. I plan to go through it all and respond bit by bit. I've only scanned the surface of them myself.

But they seem to be above average on the topic in my experience.

I suppose I could say . . . that the author is convinced from his reading and study of the related Scriptures that

1) the Pre-Trib Rapture position is the only one that makes sense to him and that he sees as consistent with Scripture and history.

2) He seems to come to this position from root word studies as well as historical analysis and logic. I think he presents as rational, solid, consistent etc. analysis as I've seen and well above average--imho.

3) He very reasonably and solidly lays out the end-times position of Blood Israel being Children of The Promise due for future--mostly future--given Israel becoming a nation again in 1948--future fulfillment of a host of Biblical prophecies. I think he presents one of the better logical presentations of this perspective.

Beyond that will have to wait for a more careful reading.

THX.

[DAVEY CROCKETT]

WOW Quix so much reading so little time! Thanks

I am glad to see so many different ideas, I am fearing a push to unite all religions.

I found this interesting not sure if it is true just food for thought...

Neil Bush, Ratzinger co-founders
President's younger brother served with then-cardinal on board of relatively unknown ecumenical foundation

snip

But Vachicouras said the designation must be a mistake of translation to English because the foundation is a private nonprofit established under Swiss law. He said the foundation is being "relaunched" on its mission to publish the original text of the Bible's Old Testament in Hebrew, its New Testament in Greek and the Quran in Arabic.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wochar214226829apr21,0,7289567.story?coll=ny-worl

[Quix]

The thicken plots and the plot thickens.

Sigh.

Glad God wins in the end and that He carries us with Him into a glorious eternity!

LUB

[DAVEY CROCKETT]

The thicken plots and the plot thickens.

Yes it does everyday. smiles

Good to see you!
LUB

[Thinkin' Gal]

I found one:

Daniel 9:23-25

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Nehemiah 1:1-6

1 The words of Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah. And it came to pass in the month Chisleu, in the twentieth year, as I was in Shushan the palace,
2 That Hanani, one of my brethren, came, he and certain men of Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews that had escaped, which were left of the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem.
3 And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.
4 And it came to pass, when I heard these words, that I sat down and wept, and mourned certain days, and fasted, and prayed before the God of heaven,
5 And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:
6 Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments...

At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth...
...Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment

Luke 4:16-19

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

This Haftarah reading is Isaiah 61:1-2. In the triennial cycle, it's the 34th reading of the 3rd year. 2000-2001 was also the third year of this cycle, which is counted from the month of Nisan. If you go back 1971 years (a multiple of 3), you end up in 29 AD, 483 normal Jewish years after the Kislev of Artaxerxes 20th year, 455 BC*. The Sabbath above matches Rosh Chodesh Kislev. The crucifixion 3 1/2 years later divided time. Time, times, half; number, weigh, divide; 7, 62, and half, etc. The clock can pick up logically [symbolically] where it left off, at the point in time which commemorates the Exodus and the crucifixion... the taking away/rejection of/lifting up of ha-Tamiyd.

* Source = Thucydides. It appears that those who 1) also use the normal Jewish calendar for reckoning 483 years, and 2) count from the Nisan of Artaxerxes 20th year (Neh 2), end up at Passover 30 AD as the date of the crucifixion. This forces their date for the birth of Christ back to 4 BC, even though the beginning of John's ministry is dated in Luke 3 to the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius (Aug 28 AD to Aug 29 AD). The presumption is that 1) the'commandment (davar) to go forth was given by a human king Artaxerxes in Nisan 454 BC, and 2) the end of the 62 (69) sevens is the crucifixion [in Nisan]. However, if the commandment [davar] is counted from the month of Kislev (when Nehemiah prayed, as per Daniel 9:23 and 25), and the 7 + 62 sevens marked the arrival of the Messiah in Luke 4 in the synagogue, then there is no date discrepancy with Luke 3 (Yeshua's ministry commenced sometime after John's, presumably 6 months because of the difference in their ages, but in any case, after Aug of 28 AD - Aug 29 AD. This would not be possible if He were crucified the following spring).

 

Daniel 9:23,25 ---> Nehemiah 1:1-6 ---> Luke 4:16-19

***

Matthew 27:50-53

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Mark 15:37-39

37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luke 23:44-47

44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man. [tsadik]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [seven]: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [seven]

The 70th 'week' being all about Messiah

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
John 10:42 And many believed on him there.
John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Acts 9:42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.

and in the midst of the week [seven] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Hebrews 7:26-27 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 10:11-14

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for [1519] ever [1336], sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1519 eis {ice}
a primary preposition; TDNT - 2:420,211; prep
AV - into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58,
toward 29, against 26, misc 321; 1773

1) into, unto, to, towards, for, among

1336 dienekes {dee-ay-nek-es'}
neuter of a compound of 1223 and a derivative of an alternate of
5342;; adj

AV - continually + 1519 2, for ever + 1519 2; 4
1) continuously, continuous

Compare 'the daily':

08548 tamiyd {taw-meed'}
from an unused root meaning to stretch; TWOT - 1157a; n m

AV - continually 53, continual 26, daily 7, always 6, alway 4, ever 3,
perpetual 2, continual employment 1, evermore 1, never 1; 104

1) continuity, perpetuity, to stretch
1a) continually, continuously (as adverb)
1b) continuity (subst)

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,

Who determines desolations and why? Cf. Lev 26. Dan 9:27 can surely find a dual fulfillment with an antichrist/Esav character, insofar as the Lord raises up enemies to execute His judgments.

Revelation 6:15-17

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks [petra] of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks [petra], Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

[Quix]

I don't think I disagreed with anything you posted.

But I still have no clue what you're saying. What is the essence, main points that you are trying to communicate.

Not trying to be dense or difficult. I just don't get your main points.

Could you summarize in simple terms, please. I suspect others would appreciate it, too.

Thanks for the psot.

[bondserv]

Went to add you to the ping list. But system has been screwy and will have to reinstall MS Office, first.

Thanks.

Great.

Would take you off only if you became unreasonably hostile etc.

Being hostile is not the Christian thing to do to a brother in Christ.

[Quix]

Much agree.

This forum could do . . .

consideragbly better on that score.

I'm at least redoubling my efforts toward such.

Sigh.

[fortheDeclaration]

No actually Israel has already been restored twice.Once after the Babylonians conquest and once After the Assyrian conquest. So what of the recent man made restoration.

The 10 tribes never returned to the land after the conquest by Assyria.

The only two returns were after the Babylonian captivity and then the return in 1948.

[maestro]

Amen,......

Maranatha!

Titus 1:2

[Quix]

THX THX

[Jeremiah Jr]

…"many Christians take prophecies that have been fulfilled . . . and view them as still unfulfilled. They then manipulate these fulfilled prophecies and apply them to contemporary events. Their speculations are wrong because they are applying fulfilled prophecies to current events."…

Ecclesiastes 1

9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.

Malachi 4

1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch…

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 6And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

Matthew 27

45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

47 Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, "This Man is calling for Elijah!" 48Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.

49 The rest said, "Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him."

The rest said, "Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come…

Eli, is spelled Alef-Lamed-Yud, Eliyah is spelled Alef-Lamed-Yud-Hei… Does anyone doubt that Eliyah would have shown up if he had been called ???

[Quix]

THANKS.

But I appreciate your personal commentaries on topics, too.