The Next Christianity

The Atlantic Monthly Group ^ | 2002 | PHILIP JENKINS

[steve8714]

Too much kissing inthat grope, eh, group already.

[sionnsar]

Thanks to Siobhan for spotting and pinging this.

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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[Romulus]

It would be a bitter irony for the liberals if the council were convened but turned out to be a conservative, Southern-dominated affair

The problem is that the liberal North still has the money to back its vision with media, institutes, and prominence for its pet theologians. The impoverished South needs not just orthodoxy but curial muscle to make it stick. Northern trads and other orthodox groups need to be reaching out to the South and to China, offering sponsorship and media prominence.

[ilConteVerde]

Thank you, NYer. We know this because of the woman Joan on EWTN, Vatican Communications Director or similar title.

From what I gather, John Paul's message to be continued is the Prolife message, and the Cardinals are embracing this message, and the rest of the world's leaders are showing enthusiasm for it. Does that sound about right?

"In case you missed this thread, here is one example of how youth have responded - A small, sturdy band of 'John Paul priests'(JPII legacy of conservative priests)."

I didn't miss that one. It was a Christian Science Monitor article which referenced all those ordained during the last pontificate. Is this the group you refer to?

"EWTN has interviewed many priests over the past few days, who all claim to have been drawn to JPII's message "Follow me".

Would it be safe to assume that since the pope's message, which the Cardinals are beginning to understand, is nothing less than prolife, that to "follow me" means simply "be pro life"?

"Perhaps you should watch some of the programs on EWTN to better understand just how far that message extended and the increasing enrollment of "JPII" priests in the seminaries."

I can't get there from here. No EWTN available.

From what I gathered though, the "JPII priests" referred to the whole group of I think it was 17,000 priests ordained during his pontificate and not just those who adhered to the pope's message, in contrast to others whom may not have.

Does "JPII priests" refer to all of them, or only some of them?

"There was another thread recently, on this topic. If you do some research on just the US seminaries, you will discover that in those diocese run by the more liberal bishops, vocations have trickled off whereas the dioceses run by those bishops who adhere to a more traditional formation, the seminaries are full."

Can you provide an example?

"In fact, one NY seminary that once taught more 'progressive' courses, has turned completely around. Now the seminarians are once again returning."

That's great news. Which seminary is this in New York, and what are the others that are returning?

"You obviously have very little faith or are a cynic."

I must say I feel a bit hurt; you seemed knowledgeable and helpful on these matters, and I just want to know and do the right Catholic thing. I wasn't really expecting someone to question my faith in the Church.

If I touched a nerve, I'm sorry for that. I'll try harder to fall in line with your position.

[conservonator]

Just for clarification, would you consider your self a traditionalist, progressive, sedevacantist, or just a plain old vanilla Catholic?

Just curious.

[ilConteVerde]

I'm just a Catholic.

[NYer]

No EWTN available.

Available 24 hours a day via the Internet.

[ilConteVerde]

You're right. I just looked, and there's a cartoon playing. This hits me right where I am.

[NYer]

Check again! Live from the Vatican is on. Now that you've discovered EWTN via the Internet, you can check their programming guide, Pascendi.

[ilConteVerde]

There's no Pascendi programming guide that I can find.

But back to this group of young people who are bending away from progressive Catholicism... you mentioned the "JPII priests". It's unclear to me if this group refers to all those ordained during the pontificate of John Paul II, or just those that adhere to the message of John Paul II.

The article you referenced would seem to refer to all of them; and this group is the example you provided.

Are all of those ordained during the pontificate the loyal group you were referring to, or was there a more specific group of priests you had in mind?

I'm trying hard to understand the right theory concerning the future direction of the Catholic Church as you envision it.

[DBeers]

I'm trying hard to understand the right theory concerning the future direction of the Catholic Church as you envision it.

Try harder. The 'right theory' as you term it and appear to diminish by terming it theory is simply put -Church teaching. Voice your opinion relative to specific aspects of the faith; otherwise, you are but tap dancing a morally relative and ambiguous exercise that at a minimum detracts from the very notion of moral absolutes.

[bahblahbah]

"Any strength of a 'reformation' movement was quelled by JPII's funeral."

Maybe if you're talking about the mainline(marxist) protestant churches that are always first in line for those ecumenism meetings in order to destroy all of Christianity.

"It is simply a matter of time before the liberal element of the church dies off and is replaced by the youth who have embraced the more traditional aspects of the Catholic faith."

If Catholics don't increase the amount of clergy they have then they're going to be steamrolled by the more intimate Pentecostals and other types of evangelicals. And I don't really understand why Catholics don't let their priests marry. The American Catholic church needs to bring in more Hispanic priests as they're losing up to a half a million Catholics to protestant churches. Then those people who convert in the US tell those in their homeland about their conversion.

[farmer18th]

Are you troubled by JPII's promotion of Cardinal Law to an elevated position in Rome?