Posted on 03/28/2005 9:32:22 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day
Good point.
Just curious, what are FReepers' views on hell? What is it? Where is it? When/for how long? Is it permanent? Who goes there? Does your pastor/priest/rabbi etc. discuss Hell? The devil? Or is it quietly ignored?
Hell: spending eternity married to Helen Thomas.
That would be BEYOND hell. What is that, the eighth circle of hell?
No. But it is a theological discussion. This seemed like the approprite place.
Having studied Vedic literature for many years (Bhagavad Gita, Mahabharat, Puranas, etc) I can affirm the Vedic understanding of hell.
1. It certainly exists.
2. There are varieties, all horrible.
3. Hellish punishment is not eternal, but the sentences are very, very, VERY lengthy.
4. Each soul recieves judgement at death, and is sent to the appropriate reward and/or punishment.
5. The purpose of hell is to teach a lesson; the basic lesson being to follow the laws of God.
Descriptions of hells include heat, darkness, fires, terrible animals, torturers, entrails being ripped, excrement and other vile substances, worms, and so on. Loud cries, misery, thirst, and the like.
It is a frightful proposition.
I am a Bible only Christian if that is what you would call it so I believe that hell does exist and that most are going there.
The one main issue I struggle with as a Christian is that of hope. I hope I go to heaven and I try to live a good life and do as the Father wills.
I know my works will not gain my admittance but the Bible clearly states that I will be judged by my works.
I would like to think that accepting Christ as your savior is all that is required but I don't believe that so I am very fearful.
Fearful enough to never sin? Oh, how I wish that were true or even possible.
I guess all we can do is keep trying our best to do His will.
Love our brother/sister.
Fear and sex sells, and the fear of death and what follows a dying is a great motivational tool to help the Sunday morning businessmen pay their mortgages and other bills.
Tsk, tsk. The Rev Aitken apparently never had such a problem but perhaps that is because he was a Calvinist and not an ecumenical or fundamentalist preacher.
From What Does the Bible Teaches About Hell by Greg Johnson
Hell is final. There is no second chance after death. “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
Hell is everlasting. It never stops. It is “eternal” (Daniel 12:2) and “everlasting” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), and the smoke of their burning goes up “forever and ever” (Revelation 14:11). We moderns may miss this image, since we don’t use fire on a daily basis. As long as the fuel remains, the smoke continues to rise. When the fuel is used up, the smoke stops rising. In hell people are burned, but the smoke keeps rising forever. They burn, but never fully come to an end. Such torment is called “the second death” (Revelation 21:8), where they are forever “outside” the gates of heaven (Revelation 22:15).
Hell is conscious. No sleeping here, where “there is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). Notice the rich man’s pleadings in Luke 16:19-31. Hell’s victims are conscious.
Hell is punishment. It’s not “just what happens” to people. It is punishment at the hands of God. It is God’s contempt of people (Daniel 12:2), it is being “condemned” by God, like in a court (John 5:29). It is God’s just “payback” for sins (2 Thessalonians 1:6), when Jesus “will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel.... They will be punished.” (v.8-9).
Hell is painful. Jesus described it as “the fiery furnace” (Matthew 13:40-42), “the eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41),“the darkness,” “outside” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). Hell is “the blackest darkness” (Jude 13). Revelation calls it “the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15). Whether hot or cold, bright or dark, all these images are images of extreme suffering.
People will be condemned to hell at the Second Coming and Day of Judgment. The sentence of hell is given at Jesus’ return (2 Thessalonians 1:7, also Matthew 25:31).
People suffer in hell even while they await the Second Coming and Judgment Day. “The Lord knows how to... hold the unrighteous for the Day of Judgment, while continuing their punishment” (2Peter 2:9). We also see this in Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), where the rich man was undergoing punishment in hell after his death while his brothers still lived. This is a parable, so it can’t be pressed too far, but Jesus’ parables were taken from real-life situations, including the situation of dying and being held in punishment while awaiting the Day of Judgment.
God is in hell and punishes people there. The guilty “will be tormented in burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11). The Lamb in Revelation is Jesus. Hell is not so much eternal separation from God as it is the eternal presence of God in unmitigated wrath and fury. Hell is separation from God in the sense of being separated from his blessings and fellowship (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Hell is where we must “drink the wine of God’s fury which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath” (Revelation 14:10).
Hell is both physical and spiritual. . It follows the resurrection of the dead (John 5:28-29), so those who suffer in hell will suffer bodily as well as in spirit. Jesus said it was “better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell” (Matthew 5:30). Hell will be a place for our bodies as well as a condition of our souls. Beware those who make hell sound too ethereal and spiritual.
Hell is real. This isn’t just language the Bible uses to get a response out of us. Jesus warns us about it because it really does exist and really is our destiny. He loves us enough to warn us in advance.
Everyone goes to hell. . Jesus Christ and those “in Christ” are the only exceptions. All who “do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” are sent to hell (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Those who turn to Jesus are saved. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.... Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already” (John 3:16, 18).
Jesus spoke more about hell than about heaven. Was he lying, or did the bible writers deliberately misquote him?
Jesus spoke more about finances than hell, Heaven, or salvation. Was He lying, or did the Bible writers deliberately misquote Him?
Friend, this is a recipe for despair. I know, because I walked for many years in your shoes. I admire you for continuing to cleave to God even through your belief that your salvation is a fleeting temporal thing. For my part, I gave up trying to be perfect and walked many years in spriritual darkness. Then one day the Lord allowed me to understand that Christ does not lose his sheep, and my salvation finally filled me with joy, rather than fear.
For theose in Christ, there is no condemnation. We will be judged for our works there is no doubt, and many believers will escape damnation "only as one who passes through flames". But Christ will bring all of His sheep into the fold.
I am reminded of the illustration of a criminal before a judge. His case has fallen to pieces, and he knows that he is guilty, and that the penalty is more than he can bear. The judge reads the verdict: guilty on all charges. The gavel bangs. Then the judge pronounces, "You deserve a strong sentence for what you have done. Indeed, you can never make restitution for your crimes, even if you live forever. But because I Am merciful, I will serve your sentence for you. Out of my great wealth I will make restitution for your crimes. And you will be my adopted son and live in my house all of your days." Then the judge removes the prisoner's shackles and leads him out of the courtroom.
You, my friend, are the criminal, and Christ is the Judge. Yes, you are guilty. But He has paid your penalty.
**What is it?**
Eternal separation from God. Because God is the source of all joy, eternal separation from Him leads to eternal misery and pain. A soul in Hell is cast away (or more accurately, casts itself away) from God, and is left to the realm of Satan and his minions. This too contributes to the misery of Hell. BTW, as one FReeper tagline points out, Satan is definitely a Democrat!
Where is it?
Good question. This is alot like asking where is Heaven. I really don't know how to answer it - maybe say that both Heaven and Hell exist on other "planes" of reality? They aren't in our space-time - one could not reach Heaven by traveling far enough in a spaceship, or reach Hell by digging deep enough. But they both certainly exist. Heaven has a physical, spatial component as well, for Christ is physically, bodily present there. Don't know about Hell. Of course this all gets tricky, because while God is in Heaven, He is also everywhere in creation, and while Satan is in Hell, he exerts great influence on the Earth. It's fun to speculate about how this all "works" but I'm fairly skeptical that our human minds can ever grasp the truth of the whole thing.
When/for how long? Is it permanent?
Hell is absolutely permanent. To say otherwise is to contradict Christ Himself.
Who goes there?
Anyone who dies who has not repented of his/her sins and accepted the mercy and love of God. I fear that most people, especially in our current world, go to Hell. The gate of Heaven is narrow and few enter it, as Christ says.
Does your pastor/priest/rabbi etc. discuss Hell? The devil? Or is it quietly ignored?
Our priest tries to drive home the importance of Hell, but he has admitted that it is very frustrating at times. So many people have been poorly educated in the faith and so influenced by our secular culture, that they really don't understand the reality of Hell. He worries that what he says just goes in one ear and out the other. At least he tries though. Some priests I've known don't even bother to preach on Hell - wouldn't want to make the congregation uncomfortable, you know :(
Thank you for that Eastern point of view. That's interesting.
Thanks for your reply. I think most of us need a little hellfire and brimstone preached to us now and then.
Do your priests ever speak about the devil? Is Satan perceived to be a reality or a dramatic invention?
When do you think the Law & the Gospel sermons started fading away?
Do you get more psychobabble now, or what are the sermons like?
But Christ will bring all of His sheep into the fold.
Christ doesn't lose His sheep, I agree. But what if the sheep lose Him? What if a sheep deliberately wants to wander off and fall down a cliff? What if the sheep no longer wants to be a sheep, and now wants to be a wolf instead? If a sheep is bound and determined to turn his back on the Shepherd and leave the fold and never desires nor seeks to return, then the sheep will not be part of the Kingdom.
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