Jesus' Teaching on God's Law

Jesus Christ: The Real Story ^ | 2004 | Various

[ET(end tyranny)]

Sorry Doug, that's implying that Jesus was the Word. It isn't EXPLICITLY stated. Inferences are just that, inferences.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Justin Martyr records that the heathens thought Mercury was the angelic Word of God.

How do we know they weren't right? Are there others that can make that claim? Why did the early christians borrow so much from heathens?

[DouglasKC]

How do we know they weren't right? Are there others that can make that claim? Why did the early christians borrow so much from heathens?

The best theory I have heard was that all of the various pagan and heathen customs and gods are corruptions of God's original teachings.

Nimrod founded a kingdom that included Babel and other cities (Gen 10:9,10:10). Over time, God's teaching became corrupted and these corrupted beliefs, under the leadership of Satan, spread throughtout the world. When the messiah finally did arrive, one of Satan's tricks was to have counterfeit messiahs, beliefs, and customs already established in order to give Christ less creditbility.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[ET(end tyranny)]

I would agree with the various corruption, I would merely add christianity into the mix.

Satan get his authority and abilities from G-d, just like Jesus does. They both will reigh a thousand years. Two different thousand year reigns, or are they one and the same?

There is only One G-d and that is YHWH and there is no other god beside Him. He tells us that. True monotheism is One G-d, not some sort of tri(3)nity or duality.

[DouglasKC]

I would agree with the various corruption, I would merely add christianity into the mix.

You're got to learn to separate scripture from traditional Christianity. I think that much of traditional christianity has been corrupted. This is so obvious, especially today. Think about the headlines...openly homosexual bishops ordained, etc.

Satan get his authority and abilities from G-d, just like Jesus does. They both will reigh a thousand years. Two different thousand year reigns, or are they one and the same?

I believe that Satan has authority over the physical earth and has had for a very long time. When Christ arrives to take his throne he will physically rule the earth thereafter.

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Christ didn't contradict Satan when Satan offered to give him the worlds kingdoms. He didn't say "they're not yours to give".

There is only One G-d and that is YHWH and there is no other god beside Him. He tells us that. True monotheism is One G-d, not some sort of tri(3)nity or duality.

True Christianity is monotheism. One God. Marriage is a type of that. Two joined together as one, under one name. In a perfect marriage there is a blending together of wills and purposes, but each has a distinct role. Same with the father and the son...which of course was why marriage was created.

[ET(end tyranny)]

I believe that Satan has authority over the physical earth and has had for a very long time. When Christ arrives to take his throne he will physically rule the earth thereafter.

Better reread Job because scripture disagrees with you.

In marriage each person keeps their separate indentities and are free to make their own choices independant of the other. They are equal.

YHWH is greater than Jesus.

:)

[spunkets]

"a verse where Jesus flat out says he IS G-D."

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Genesis 1:27
"So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

Just as man is composed of body, soul and spirit, so too is God. That is why the prior passage, Genesis 1:26, says,
"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

That is the nature of Jesus claim in John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

The souls of men were not created before their bodies. Only the One who was not created existed before all. Jesus response was given to the following question, John 8:57, "You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”.

" if Jesus was G-d then why the battle of wills in the garden of Gethsemane? Is G-d always indecisive?

God became man. In order to be fully human, He had to develop and recreate His Spirit just as all other men-from scratch, out of their own Free will. He never had the full knowledge of the Father, only the heart and wisdom of the Father. Matt 24:36, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. The Father knew the mechanics behind the shining of the stars, did Jesus? In the scheme of things, that was not important.

"any verse from Acts where it was necessary for anyone to profess that Jesus was G-d to be saved."

There is none. John 8:1-11, gives the teaching of the Holy Spirit that illuminates the meaning of Isaiah 63-

"But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

“No one, sir,” she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

This is the One in Isaiah 63:1-6,
Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength?

"It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save."

Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?

"I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.

For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.
I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm worked salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me.
I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground."

Here is what God says, Matt 12:31-32, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

He made them drunk by giving then life and a Free will to determine their own destiny. Those who reject the Spirit, pour their own blood on the ground.

[Ciexyz]

Good teaching.

[ET(end tyranny)]

You can be of like mind without being one and the same person. Nice try though.

[spunkets]

"You can be of like mind without being one and the same person."

The statement claims is. Besides that, God said He was alone in Isaiah 63 and elsewhere.

[ET(end tyranny)]

That's right YHWH does say He is alone and there is no other Saviour than Him.

Jesus was a prophet not G-d. He even tells us he was a prophet. He also tells us that our Father is greater than him/Jesus. So yep, they are two different entities. :)

[spunkets]

"He even tells us he was a prophet."

A prophet, where?

"He also tells us that our Father is greater than him/Jesus. So yep, they are two different entities."

The Father was always. Without creation there is no Trinity, neither for God, nor man, and the statements I gave you fron Genesis would be false. Ezekiel 37:5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life."

John6:40, " For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” The Son is the Temple in which the Spirit resides. It is the Spirit who is to be believed and cherished. John 2:19, Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” What prophet does God have that raises the dead?

[ET(end tyranny)]

A prophet, where?

Matthew 13
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13
33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem

What prophet does God have that raises the dead?

Act 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Paul seems to think that YHWH performed miracles and wonders through the MAN named Jesus. So, guess I'd say G-d raised the dead, not Jesus.

[1 spark]

remember James was writing to educated Jewish converts, who presumably already knew the basis of soul-saving salvation was God’s forgiveness of sin through blood atonement achieved by faith in Messiah’s sacrifice

Is that part of Jesus' gospel, or Paul's?

Anyway...aside from that, your article seems to support what I already posted. James did NOT advocate doing away with the law and said that faith without the law is dead. You cannot be justified by faith alone. Your article supports this when it says:

" He (James) is, however, coming at the subject on a slightly different path than Paul, emphasizing that true faith demonstrates itself by a change in lifestyle and that, absent this evidence by what he calls “Works”, the sort of faith had by the individual obviously lacks the ability to actually Save the person from God’s wrath."

Condensing that... Without works , faith cannot save a person from God's wrath.

Doing works is doing what is right...is following the Law. Jesus summed up what God expects of us (the Law) in those 2 commandments. We can do this. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[1 spark]

Do you believe Jesus was God ?

Jesus was a man. God is not a man. (We are told that in the Bible.)

[1 spark]

What has happened is that Pauls words have been twisted throughout history, beginning in biblical times

I've vascillated between wondering if Paul was misquoted, misunderstood, or just made things up as he went along. I have sources (books and websites) that range the spectrum on what to make of his teachings. If you want them, let me know.

[spunkets]

Re:prophet, Matt 13:57

Background: After Jesus taught about Himself and His Kingdom, here is what was written: Matt 34-35, "Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.” The reference is too God Himself.

Matt 13:53-58, "When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” And they took offense at him.

But Jesus said to them, “Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor.”

And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith."

The statement means they threated Him as they did the prophets before Him. He(God) now stands before them and is rejected as they were as in your Luke 13 cut. Notice the mention of lack of faith.

prophets, Luke 13

read the next sentence. Luke 13:34“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

There is only one who gathers the children of Jerusalem, that's God Himself.

"Paul seems to think that YHWH performed miracles and wonders through the MAN named Jesus."

Paul never said, "I and the Father are one." Paul said all have sinned. The words of the One he called Lord reign supreme. Paul is not God's teacher, nor does he know God as God does. Jesus said, I raise them up."

Romans 11:34-36
“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”(Isaiah 40-13) “Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?”(Job 41:11) For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

God is one. There is no other that knows the mind of God, except God. Paul speaks of God through Jesus Christ, the Temple. He calls Him Lord as God was refered to throughout the OT. It is actually the Holy Spirit he is focusing on.

[kosta50]

I've vascillated between wondering if Paul was misquoted, misunderstood, or just made things up as he went along

At least Paul admits that he doesn't have a commandment, but only permission (1 Cor 7:6,25). How many others have added their own judgment believing they had permission? How many others have been misquoted, misunderstood or just made things up? If human nature, being imperfect and thoroughly fallen is any guide, I would say even the best of them have done it. Paul admits it.

[kosta50]

This isn't because of anything that was in the bible or God's law. There is no such injunction in scripture. The problem was that the jews of the time ADDED to scripture. This is why I keep saying that you confuse scripture with Jewish tradition

The Jewish Law or Halacha is derived from the Scripture (Torah), based on long and exhaustive rabbinical interpretations of God's laws. Mom already explained why it is impossible to make oneself righteous by the law -- for to do so one has to obey it perfectly and no one, given our nature, can do it.

Ruth is not a good example of how Judaism views the Gentiles. After all, Ruth did become Jewish. But there were no attempts to teach the Gentiles about God; Judaism does not know proselytism. So, without Christianity, the God of Abraham would have remained known to the Jews, whatever their numbers. That the God of Abraham is known to and worshipped by billions of people today is the work of Gentiles, not Jews.

Now, as far as Halacha is concerned, the Jewish Law is not always very kind towards the non-Jews. Using Jewish sources and not various hate groups that litter the Internet, it is important to understand that Halacha is part of the Talmud and that it has evolved from about 200 AD and for the past 1800 or so years. As such, many of the Halachic pronouncements must be understood in the historical and cultural context and not as isolated phrases, but they nevertheless act as guidelines taught by people of influence. Let's look at some of them:

• Jew who murders a Gentile is not punishable by death in the human courts. According to some opinions he is not punishable at all by the human courts. But a Gentile who kills a Jew, purely by accident and unintentionally, must be put to death.
• Laws in regard to murder, which clearly state that there is Halachic difference between murder of a Jew and of a Gentile (the latter is considered a far less severe crime).
• A ban on desecrating the Sabbath to save the life of a Gentile.
• A Jew's exemption from liability if his property (e. g. ox) causes damage to a Gentile's property. But if a Gentile's property causes damage to a Jew's property, the Gentile is liable.
• The question of whether robbery of a Gentile is forbidden by the Torah's law or only by a Rabbinic decree.
• A ban on returning a lost item to a Gentile if the reason for returning it is one's sympathy towards the Gentile and compassion for him.
• The sum which a Gentile overpays in a business transaction due to his own error is forfeit; whether a Jew is permitted to intentionally deceive a Gentile is also discussed.
• One who kidnaps a Jew is liable to death, but one who kidnaps a Gentile is exempt.
• A Jew who hurts or injures a Gentile is not liable for compensation of damage, but a Gentile who hurts a Jew is liable to death.
• One who overcharges a Gentile ought not return him the sum that the Gentile overpaid.
• A Gentile -- or even a convert to Judaism -- may not be appointed king or public official of any sort (e. g. a cabinet minister).
• One who defames a female proselyte (claiming that she was not virgin at the time of her marriage) is liable to neither lashes nor fine.
• The prohibition to hate applies only to Jews; one may hate a Gentile.
• One may take revenge against or bear a grudge towards Gentiles; likewise, the commandment "love your neighbor" applies only to Jews, not to Gentiles.
• One who sees Gentile graveyards should curse: "Your mother shall be greatly ashamed..."
• Gentiles are likened to animals.
• If an ox damaged a Gentile maidservant, it should be considered as though the ox damaged a she-ass.
• The dead body of a Gentile does not bear ritual impurity, nor does a Gentile who touches the dead body of a Jew become impure -- he is considered like an animal who touched a dead body.
• One is forbidden to pour anointing oil on a Jew, but there is no ban on pouring that oil on a Gentile because Gentiles are likened to animals.
• An animal slaughtered by a Gentile is forbidden, even if the ritual slaughter performed was technically correct, because Gentiles are deemed like animals. (Daat Emet does not agree that this is the Halachic reason for invalidating a Gentile's ritual slaughter -- but this is not the place to delve into the subject).
• Their members are like those of asses" -- Gentiles are likened to animals.
• There are Jews (who are referred to as 'men') and gentiles.

I highly recommend that the reader also use the link included and read rabbinical explanations and opinions on these issues before passing any judgments, but the very fact that such issues exist is significant. Hate and intolerance is a human quality -- passions that lead to the death of the soul, which is why all humanity is in need of salvation.

[RnMomof7]

I have studied some of the jewish law as it related to some NT events to clarify some of the events.

excellent post