Posted on 12/06/2004 6:28:52 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator
lol
You got me there!
You know, whever one of these snotty know-it-all "Biblical historians" claims to me that "the Bible was composed by the Priests during the Second Temple era" or some such theory, I always ask, "So how come they didn't include the 'Book of the Maccabees' which glorifies the heroes of the Priesthood?"
That's when they get mad and start calling me names.
Probably never ... According to the Express Times
Soon after his film "The Passion of the Christ" was released, Mel Gibson appeared on conservative talk show host Sean Hannity's radio show. When asked what he would do after the massive success of his film, Gibson said he was thinking about making a movie about the story behind the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah -- which begins at sunset Tuesday.
His Hanukkah movie would be loaded with action, Gibson said.
"The Maccabees' family stood up and made war," Gibson said, as reported by the BBC. "They stuck by their guns and they came out winning. It's like a Western."
What Gibson was talking about is the Jewish festival of Hanukkah, which celebrates the Jewish rebellion led by the Maccabees over the Greek King Antiochus IV in 165 B.C.
The reaction to his proposed film from some Jewish officials -- still stinging from what they said was the anti-Semitism in "The Passion of the Christ" -- wasn't so positive.
"Thanks for trying to make it up to us, but no thanks," Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League told Britain's Sunday Times. "The last thing we need is Jewish history turned into a Western. In his hands, we would probably lose."
Since then, Gibson has reportedly become committed to a more secular film project -- another sequel to the action movie "Mad Max." However, if he does eventually make his Hanukkah movie, it may be an attempt to make amends with Jews over the controversy surrounding "The Passion of the Christ."
And it may also reflect a part of Gibson's faith.
The story of Hanukkah is not in the Hebrew Bible but in a section of the Christian Bible that Catholics and Orthodox Christians follow.
As a Catholic, Gibson adheres to a Bible which contains the Book of Maccabees and other books Protestant churches don't accept.
Placed between the New and Old Testaments, there are 15 books accepted by Catholics and 18 books accepted by Orthodox Christians. They include everything from additions to the Book of Daniel to books of prophecy and wisdom.
Protestants do not recognize these books as part of the canon. But sometimes they place them in the Bible and call them the Apocrypha (pronounced uh-pok-ruh-fuh), which means "concealed" or "hidden" in Greek.
Within those books is the Book of Maccabees, which contains the Hanukkah story. And a plot surrounding it that could, in Gibson's hands, be turned into a violent action movie.
The story goes like this:
With the Greeks occupying Jerusalem after the conquest of Alexander the Great, the Jews are persecuted because of their religion. They are forced to eat pork, not allowed to perform circumcisions and cannot worship as Jews.
"Antiochus was trying to have everybody worship the same god and didn't like one group not following what the state wanted," says Rabbi Mark Shrager of Bnai Abraham Synagogue in Wilson Borough.
The Jewish temple in Jerusalem is contaminated with pagan sacrifices. Offerings are made there to the Roman god Zeus. Outraged by the desecration of the temple, a Jew named Matthias kills the first Jew who approaches the altar to make a sacrifice and a royal official who presides over the offering.
Matthias and his sons, forced to flee to the hills, become the leaders of a growing group of rebels. The rebellion turns into a guerilla war with smaller Jewish forces defeating much larger armies.
After Matthias' death, his son Judas Maccabee -- Maccabee means "the hammer" in Hebrew -- takes command of the revolt. Eventually, the Jewish temple is reclaimed, cleansed, and dedicated with joyous worship for eight days. Judas proclaims those eight days of celebration should be celebrated annually.
"Usually, festivals were only celebrated if they were in the Hebrew Bible, but it reflected influence from the Greeks where a politician could proclaim a day of worship on his own," Shrager says.
Later, a story was told about a small amount of holy oil discovered at the cleansing of the temple. It was miraculously able to light the Temple lamp for eight days until more oil could be supplied.
The relighting of the Temple candelabras led to the tradition of Jews lighting a special Hanukkah menorah in their homes. They add one light during each night of the festival.
"The part about the menorah is from a later source because the rabbis didn't look too kindly on Maccabees in some ways," Shrager says. "They didn't want to place too much emphasis on the military exploits. They wanted to focus on God's role by showing the miracle of the lighting."
However, Catholics may have seen the Book of Maccabees another way.
The story of Jews being persecuted for their religion may have resonated with Catholics because of the church's emphasis on martyrs and saints persecuted for their Christian beliefs.
"As part of the Hanukkah story in the Book of Maccabees, Jews suffered and were killed because they didn't want to give up their religion, and to some extent that may have played a role in church doctrine," Shrager says.
But Jews often interpret the rebellion in the Book of Maccabees as a fight for something else.
"It shows how important religious pluralism is, and how it's important to have the freedom to worship," Shrager says.
Actually "Maccabee" is a Hebrew acronym which stands for Mi Camocha B'elim Y--h ("Who is like You, O G-D?)
The Hebrew word for "hammer" is patish
It shows how important religious pluralism is
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! The Hellenizers were all for "pluralism." The Maccabees believed in ONE G-D.
The last stanza of 'Maoz Tzur', an ancient Chanukah song:
Bare Your holy arm
and hasten the End for salvation -
Avenge the vengeance of Your servants' blood
from the wicked nation.
For the triumph is too long delayed for us,
and there is no end to days of evil,
Repel the Red One in the nethermost shadow
and establish for us the seven shepherds.
So is Foxman.
How do you know were you there?! I love seeing this talk about "Paul the Hellenized Jew". Hahaha! Considering the fact that he studied Torah under Rabbi Gamiliel, one of the greatest Sages Judaism produced, I find it highly unlikely that he had a Hellenic view of the scriptures. Just because he had a knowledge of the greek language doens't mean he wasn't an orthodox Jew.
Where did you get that idea? The book of Esther is in the Hebrew Bible and it discusses the Purim holiday at the end of the book.
Proof that I shouldn't try to multi-task!
Exactly, so why would the Alexandrian Jews include extra books in the Septuagint, and why would the same collection of scripture be widely used in Palestina as well (something like 80% of quotations in the New Testament are from the Septuagint).
In my mind, it could only be because the actual canon was unsettled among Jews at large. The Jerusalem leadership may have believed it to be settled, but that does not really speak to the popular practice of the religion, does it? The New Testament shows a number of competing Jewish groups with differing power bases and even differing beliefs on matters such as the resurrection.
Can you give a number of examples? I can't comment on what you say without knowing what you are referring to.
Fyi (I remember him mostly from the Forties)
HOWARD FAST (b. 1914)
Alan Wald, Univ. of Michigan
[from Buhle, Buhle, and Georgakas, eds., ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE AMERICAN LEFT, (Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1992).]
Sounds like he was a hard-line Stalinist who thought Khruschev was too mild.
I don't remember all of them but, in Mark 11:1, he says that Jesus traveled from Jericho to Jerusalem by way of Bethpage and Bethany, when in fact, Bethany was between Jericho and Bethpage. Matthew does not repeat this mistake.
Then, in Mark 11:10, he quotes Jesus as saying "Blessed [be] the kingdom of our father David." However David was not a patriarch. Jews would never speak of "our father David." Matthew omits this line.
I also seem to remember reading something about Mark placing the beginning of Passover on the wrong day but Matthew getting it right.
Because they were forced to.
The translation of the Torah into Greek caused irreparable damage.The Torah was given to us in one language and one language only. The nuances, subtleties, and implications of the specific words chosen are lost in translation. The "70 facets of Torah" which our Sages wrote about can't readily be seen or gleaned from a translation.
In addition, when one translates, one is forced to chose a specific interpretation that he or she feels best express the meaning of the original words. Alternate meanings or interpretations are discarded. It was this aspect of the translation of the Torah that was most harmful. It gave license for people to begin explaining the Torah as they saw fit, ignoring other relevant and applicable meanings that came from Sinai as well.
The teachings of the Sages were disregarded, and the holy words of the Torah were corrupted. For this reason, a fast was warranted.
- R. Yehudah Prero
How do you know that Paul studied under Gamaliel, besides the fact that he CLAIMED it? He never gave any details about it to make anyone believe that it was actually true.
In Acts 23, when Paul and Gamaliel should have encountered one another, Gamaliel is nowhere to be found.
"The coming of Christianity brought with it a hatred that would drive the Jews "from place to place, from city to city, from country to country," and the last two thousand years of Jewish history is the story of the Diaspora."
What is this? Why were the first Christians hiding in the upper room, when Rome clearly had no quarrel with them? How many Jews died facing the lions? Believe it or not, a long time ago, there were more Jews than Christians, and the persecution went the other way...
First, Greek philosophy indeed took account of more than the physical and rational - read the Phaedo.
Secondly, the Greeks certainly knew the few could defeat the many because they had done exactly that at Marathon. A good summary of their views is in The Republic, Book II.
Yes...undoubtedly for the early years Jews persecuted Christians. Now let's look at the last, say, 1800 years.
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