Posted on 10/19/2004 10:13:34 AM PDT by suzyjaruki
How does one reach this degree of holiness?
Sanctification is the supernatural work of God, but man is expected to co-operate.
After reading several of the recent threads, I have been troubled by the tone and manner of the postings. It seems as though our duty/pleasure to glorify Him is being overriden by a need to win an argument and an insistence on being right without being charitable. I hope that this chapter from Christian Holiness will be a reminder to us all of the bigger picture.
How are we to cooperate in this imitation of the model? I take it that Christ is the model? Is there not a difference between cooperation and imitation?
It's also difficult to know when one is trying to "win an argument" or "imitate Jesus" simply by telling the truth to those who don't want to hear it. The apostles didn't make many friends by sharing their faith but one has to conclude they were exhibiting holiness.
Unfortunately, I'm not an apostle (ok, truth's out now) so what's to say my interpretation is correct? I suppose it boils down to being able to give a good defense through scripture always having an answer for our calling and speaking the truth in love. How people interpret my theology is their concern. (I also appreciate those who admonish me as well.) I can only be as faithful to God's word as I am capable of being and how He has revealed it to me.
Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Prov 27:17
You can't sharpen each other without some sparks but in the end you both benefit.
Ephesians 5 1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know,[1] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
It is so easy to fall into sarcasm and personal attack, but I haven't noticed that in your posts.
While it is true that iron sharpens iron, it can also pierce the heart.
I can see that many more views are recorded for a thread than posts. We might be saying more to the viewers than we are to one another.
So do we become holy in the way we act or don't act?
This is an excellent article. The holiness movement that began in the early 1800s was not without some very unintended results. Several denominations that arose out of the holiness movement took things way to far in attempting to live a 'holy' life, such as no jewelery, no make-up, absolutely no drinking, no dancing, no movies, extremely modest dress, and a whole host of shoulds and shouldn'ts that had no Biblical support.
While these constraints may or may not have been formalized, they certainly detracted from Christians being encouraged to live an abundant life.
Fortunately, most of those denominations have eventually recognized those errors.
It would also be fair to say that many of them would be considered more Arminian in nature than Calvinistic, although there were and are a few Calvinist churches which have made the same errors in judgment.
Are we crucifying sin or has the sin already be crucified with Christ?
If you have ever seen pictures of groups that are associated with the 1800s holiness movements you will note that none of the people are smiling. Some of those groups (and most of them were Arminian in nature, some even extremely so) also shared a view with some Calvinists, independently of course, that sex within marriage should be for procreation primarily and that sex within marriage for bonding and pleasure was not holy or pious.
All that said, I do believe that people who live their lives within God's will and his moral laws are happier. People are generally happier when they know they are living rightly. One just needs to be careful to not be ruled by man-made constraints that are unBiblical.
Are you familiar with the Puritan concept of the mortification of the flesh?
So do I.
Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. 3He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. 4The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. 5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish.
ctd: I know plenty of non-Christians who appear happy. They may not be, but they appear to be. I know a lot of Christians who have such a distorted view of what holiness actually is, they are miserable. They confuse fun, pleasure, and living an abundant life as being inconsistent with living a holy life. I call it false piety.
eklekton: I'm curious. Do these Christians tell you they are miserable or is this merely your perception because they are not engaged in "fun, pleasure, and living the abundant life" as you have defined it? I'd be pleased if you provided a definition of "false piety".
No I am not. Would you please enlighten me?
The Puritan practice was cooperating with God in sanctification to subdue the old man in all aspects of their lives.
There are probably many articles about mortification of the flesh on the internet.
I'm interested to know what you believe regarding growing in holiness.
God’s prescribed order of victory is in Romans chapter 6. I can not go into detail at this time but will do so in another post.
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