CALVINISM: ITS DOCTRINE OF INFANT SALVATION

Good News from the Redeemer ^ | June 28-July5, 1997 | Daniel Parks, Redeemer Baptist Church of Louisville KY

[P-Marlowe]

Can an unregenerated man sincerely pray to be regenerated?

If not, would that mean that everyone who actually and sincerely does pray to be regenerated already has been regenerated?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Can an unregenerated man sincerely pray to be regenerated?

No. That would be God-pleasing, and the Scriptrues state that while a Man is Unregenerate, he never does that which is God-pleasing.

If not, would that mean that everyone who actually and sincerely does pray to be regenerated already has been regenerated?

Yes. (Incidentally, there's no real problem with a Regenerate Believer asking for "more regeneration" -- Christ is our Life [Col. 3:4], and every Christian should pray for more of the Life of Christ in their hearts).

[P-Marlowe]

PM:would that mean that everyone who actually and sincerely does pray to be regenerated already has been regenerated?

OP: Yes.

So if someone goes forward at a Billy Graham Crusade and really wants to have his sins forgiven and really wants to please God and really wants to walk with Jesus, really wants to be born again and sincerely prays for salvation, then you would have to conclude that he is, in fact, already regenerated, as no one could possibly do those things unless they were regenerated?

The best gifts are free!

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

So if someone goes forward at a Billy Graham Crusade and really wants to have his sins forgiven and really wants to please God and really wants to walk with Jesus, really wants to be born again and sincerely prays for salvation, then you would have to conclude that he is, in fact, already regenerated, as no one could possibly do those things unless they were regenerated?

Yes.

If a man's heart truly inclines towards God, it is because God in His regeneration has caused the man's heart to incline towards God.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

A codicil should be offered here -- when we talk about "if someone goes forward at a Billy Graham Crusade and really wants to have his sins forgiven", we must reserve that not everyone who goes forward at a Billy Graham crusade really believes in Jesus in his heart. *Some* do, certainly (those whom God has Regenerated); but not necessarily everyone walkin' that aisle.

The unregenerate heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, and some will self-deceivingly seek "fire insurance" from a verbal "profession of faith" without genuine, regenerate, God-created True Faith in their hearts. (This is not only true of Billy Graham crusades, of course, and is not meant to single him out; False "professors of faith" are common to Churches and Evangelistic crusades of all sorts).

[kosta50]

Thank you, those are good references. But Saint Paul also says this (Rom 6:16)

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

How does one "yield" if not by his own will? What your references say is true, but they do not provide proof that man, once aware of God, does not choose thereafter to serve God or to turn away from Him. Free will is not a choice between God and evil, because when God created free will for angels and man, he did not create evil as a choice opposite of God. You either choose Light or darkness. Life or death. We are either slaves or we are not. There is no other possibility. We are slaves to sin, not to God. God frees us from slavery and only if we choose to follow God's path can we remain free. Sin gives us no choice. God does.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Thank you, those are good references. But Saint Paul also says this (Rom 6:16) ~~ "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" ~~ How does one "yield" if not by his own will?

Calvinists do not say that Man does not have Free Will, nor that Believers do not yield to God by their own Free Will.

Calvinists acknowledge that Man does have Free Will, and do agree that Believers do Freely Will to co-operate with God in their Sanctification (in this much, and to this extent, we can sometimes agree with Eastern Orthodox concepts of "Synergy" and "Theosis" in the Christian Life).

For Calvinists, Fallen Man's problem is not really in his "Free Will", but rather in his depraved, dead, God-hating unregenerate spirit. (His problem in in his innermost "heart", not so much in his "arms" by which he prosecutes actions, to use a Physical analogy). While a Fallen Man's spirit remains unregenerate -- depraved, dead, and God-hating -- he freely wills to Reject God. ONCE the Holy Spirit has Regenerated that Man's dead, depraved spirit unto spiritual life, he then freely wills to co-operate with God in his Sanctification unto Glorification.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

"I've got a Calvinistic book on my desk right now which speaks highly of the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of Theosis (Chilton's "The Days of Vengeance")." ~~ I that's David Chilton, I wouldn't call him a typical Calvinist. More like a Calvinist who's about to become an Orthodox!

Well, he's dead now (RIP), so we'll never know.

And I make no comment as to any scurrilous rumors that he had begun growing a long beard and crossing himself right-to-left prior to his passing. ;-)

[kosta50]

Calvinists acknowledge that Man does have Free Will, and do agree that Believers do Freely Will to co-operate with God in their Sanctification

So, where do we not agree then?

[Kolokotronis]

"For Calvinists, Fallen Man's problem is not really in his "Free Will", but rather in his depraved, dead, God-hating unregenerate spirit."

And herein lies a very major difference between Orthodoxy and Calvinism. Am I correct in my assumption that this perception stems from Calvin's interpretation of +Augustine?

[Kolokotronis]

"So, where do we not agree then?"

Well, for starters, right here: "For Calvinists, Fallen Man's problem is not really in his "Free Will", but rather in his depraved, dead, God-hating unregenerate spirit."

[klute]

Denominational-ism is a yawn. All kids go to heaven

Dogs too.

[kosta50]

Well, if they belive that man has free will and believers exercise synergism, where is the real difference?

Their belief in the "depraved, dead, God-hating unregenerate spirit" that came out of Paradise is Augustinian, which is why the Orthodox Church rejected his "Original Sin" theory when it reached the eastern Christianity (about a millennium after he died).

Orthodox view of the man's fall from God is very much in tune with the Old Testament interpretation of Genesis in Judaism. As far as Judaism is concerned, the fall was good, allowing mankind to mature.

[gracebeliever]

First of all, had to do some work and make some money, so I haven't had the time to reply much and won't until next week. However, it seems this whole debate on when regeneration occurs is akin to majoring on the minors, or debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It really does not make much difference other than to theologians and other hairsplitters. The articles of faith are not violated whether one believes regeneration occurs before or after a person is saved. We may as well be debating the Lapsarian controversy, which would likewise do little for edifying the saints.

That said, OP, the verses you cite, in the post being replied to, Ro. 9:15-18 and Eph. 1:4-6 are typical Calvinist proof texts that in no way proves that "Paul tells us a man must first be Regenerated..." There is a context to each of these passages, whether you agree with them or not.

Romans 9 is part of the great dispensational section of Romans dealing with Israel's past, present and future (Ch. 9-11). Here Paul deals with how God could set aside Israel and turn to the Gentiles. Paul being a Jew after the flesh (9:3), anticipates and responds to questions Jews might have when learning that God has turned to Gentiles. As a common rhetorical device, which is found in many places in Scripture, he raises a question then answers it himself. There are at least six of these questions Paul asks and answers in these three chapters.

The question Paul asks and responds to in 9:8-33 is, "How can God use Gentiles when we Jews are God's chosen vessel?" In this section, Paul uses several illustrations from history showing that God can choose whomever He wants to accomplish His purpose, and if He chooses to go outside the box, then it is His prerogative to do so. Hence the illustration of Esau and Jacob. Tradition says that Esau, being the elder, should have been the one chosen, but God decided in His own sovereignty to choose Jacob to become father of the chosen nation. The next illustration is in verse 15 where Moses is the example. if the reference passage is checked in Exodus 32,33, the issue is whether God will continue to use Israel, or abandon them and create a new nation in Moses. Nothing about salvation and regeneration here.

In Romans 9:16, Paul summarizes and shows the basis by which God did not destroy Israel through His mercy, and also to Moses by showing His glory. Then Paul uses Pharaoh as the example in verse 17. I don't have time to do it for you, but if you check the words in Ex. 9:16 that Paul quotes from, the words "raised" in v. 16 and "stand" in v. 17 are the same Hebrew word.

In Romans 9:18 the passage continues regarding Pharaoh. Checking back to Exodus, there are three separate Hebrew words used for "harden." If you really dig into this passage, you will see that Pharaoh already had his heart set on not letting Israel go. God, in accordance with His will, "strengthened" Pharaoh in his resolve to not let them go until all of the plagues were completed. Without going any further, it is obvious, maybe painfully so for some, that individual salvation is not the issue here, but national calling and service. Therefore, the issue of regeneration is not in the proper interpretation of what Paul is relating.

The key in Eph. 1:4 is the two words: IN HIM. Paul is addressing saved people, 1:1, so initial salvation is not the issue, hence no application of when regeneration occurs. This verse makes it clear the we are not chosen in and of ourselves. It also makes clear that God does not elect to save some and not others. What Paul tells them, and us, is the purpose of the election, "That we should be holy and without blame before Him." (4b) The "us" in this passage refers to the Body of Christ; thus being "in Him," the true elect of God, is how anyone becomes part of the elect. Verses 5 & 6, overly simplified, shows that God's predetermined will is our sonship adoption, which is how we got into the Body of Christ. And because of His grace and our adoption into Christ's body, we are "accepted in the beloved." Now that is truly great news and is something to truly be grateful for, grasp and understand.

Have a great weekend.

[HarleyD]

”It really does not make much difference other than to theologians and other hairsplitters. The articles of faith are not violated whether one believes regeneration occurs before or after a person is saved.”

It does make a difference in how you interpret the gospel and how you understand the nature of God. If we are to be holy and blameless before God, we better know what we’re doing and can give a good defense. Ignorance is no excuse.

Job 42:7 It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has.

Job’s friends thought they had their theology all in place and their theology was very flattering to God. But their poor doctrine did not correctly speak of God. God wants correctness, not nice words. For differences in the two views I would refer you to the following article:

Two Views of Regeneration

[bondserv]

Thank you for including me in your ping. Please continue to do so if you would.

You have clarified some confusing passages for us all. I agree that the point of a person's regeneration is inconsequential, mainly because we have a God who inhabits eternity. Speaking in practical, experiential terms, regeneration seems to come after receiving the gift of Salvation.

God Bless

[Dr. Eckleburg]

regeneration seems to come after receiving the gift of Salvation.

Regeneration is the gift of Salvation.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" -- Ephesians 2:8.

God's Grace saves. Faith is the evidence of election, not the cause of it.

[HarleyD]

"...regeneration seems to come after receiving the gift of Salvation."

Dr. E point is well taken. Look at what you've just said. You're saying you have "regeneration" AFTER receiving the "gift of salvation". What is the "gift of salvation" if not regeneration.

[bondserv]

(Football analogy coming)

Do you have the football before you receive it. God puts up a big floater that anyone can catch, however many purposely do not try to receive the pass. They choose to hate the quarterback, and refuse to accept the pass from him.

Once we have received the gift of faith through God's grace we are regenerated (Quickened by the Holy Spirit).

Under your plan, (said in the drone of Algore) you have a God that throws so hard and precise it lodges the ball in the receivers face mask. Then He yells, "I am that good, Yeah!!! Oh, Adam, yeah I made him drop the ball. Then I made him and his little lady take laps for the rest of their lives. Hush up, you're just lucky to be picked to be on the team."

[grace_precedes_faith]

This table is from the LINK that HarleyD posted.

Which view gives God the Glory?

Synergism	Monergism
Cause of Regeneration
Faith is the cause of regeneration	Regeneration is the cause of faith.
Faith and affections for God are produced by the old nature.	Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. It is the immediate and inevitable product of the new nature.
God and Man work together to produce the new birth. God's grace takes us part of the way to salvation, man's unregenerate will must determine the final outcome.	God, the Holy Spirit, alone produces regeneration with no contribution from the sinner. (A work of God)
God is eagerly awaiting the sinner's will.	God effectually enables the sinner's will.
The persons of the Trinity have conflicting goals in accomplishing and applying salvation: The Father elects a particular people; The Son dies for a general people and the Holy Spirit applies the atonement conditionally on those who exercize their autonomous free will.	The persons of the Trinity work in harmony - The Father elects a particular people, Christ dies for those the Father has given Him and the Holy Spirit likewise applies the benefits of the atonement to the same.
Restoration of spiritual faculties comes after the sinner exercizes faith with his natural (innate) capacities. Has the ability to see spiritual truth even before healed. (see 1 Cor 2:14). Has spiritual capacity to receive the truth, prior God's granting any spiritual ability.	"Light" itself is not enough for a blind man to see, his vision must first be restored. (John 3:3,6). Needs spiritual ability to receive truth prior to receiving it.
View of Humanity
The fallen sinner has the ability and potential inclination to believe even prior to the new birth	The fallen sinner has no ability or inclination to believe prior to the new birth.
There is enough good left in fallen man to turn his affections toward Christ.	Fallen Man has a mind at enmity with God; loves darkness, hates the light and does not have the Holy Spirit. "There is no one who seeks God" (Rom 3:11); Sinner would never turn to God without divine enablement and new affections.
Sinner needs help, is spiritually handicapped.	Spiritually dead sinner needs new nature (mind, heart, will), regeneration.
Natural man is sick and disabled like a drowning man so God would be unfeeling if He didn't help by casting a rope.	Natural man is spiritually impotent and morally culpable for both original sin and actual sins committed. Our inability is not like a physical handicap or a drowning man for which we would not be culpable but, rather, it is like a man who cannot repay a squandered financial debt. Inability to repay, therefore, does not relieve us of the moral responsibility to do so.
Needs salvation from the consequences of sin - unhappiness, hell, psychological pain	Needs salvation to remove the offense we've made against a holy God and from the power and bondage of sin.
The natural man is sovereign over his choice to accept or reject Christ - God conditionally responds to our decision.	The natural man can contribute nothing towards his salvation. Faith is a response rendered certain following the efficacious work of the Holy Spirit. We respond to God's unconditional decision. (Acts 13:48)
Some fallen men either created a right thought, generated a right affection, or originated a right volition that led to their salvation while some other fallen men did not have the natural wherewithal to come up with the faith that God required of them to obtain salvation. Therefore salvation is dependent on some virtue or capacity God sees in certain men.	No Fallen man will create a right thought, generate a right affection, or originate a right volition that will lead to his salvation. We would never believe unless the Holy Spirit came in and disarmed our hostility to God. Therefore salvation is dependent on God's good pleasure alone (Eph 1:4, 5, 11), not something He sees in us.
Man's nature & affections do not determine or give rise to his choices. He can still make a saving decision prior to the new birth while still in his unregenerate state. In this scheme God gives enough grace to place man in a neutral position which can swing either for or against Jesus. (An act of chance?)	Man's nature determines his desires/affections and give rise to the choices he makes. "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit." Luke 6:43 Only Christ can "make a tree good and its fruit will be good." (Also see John 8:34, 42-44; 2 Pet. 2:19).
View of the Gospel
The Gospel is an invitation	The Gospel is not merely an invitation but a command (1 John 3:23)
Christ died for all our sins except unbelief	Christ died for all our sins including unbelief
Sinners have the key in their hands. Man's will determines whether or not Christ's death is efficacious.	God has the key in his hand. God's eternal counsel determines to whom the benefits of the atonement apply.
It would be unjust of God to not give everyone an equal chance.	If God exercized His justice then none of us would stand since each of us has rebelled against an infinitely holy God. He owes us nothing and is under no obligation to save any person. Regeneration is, therefore, an act of pure, undeserved mercy because the justice we deserved, He poured out on His Son (thereby turning His wrath away from us).
After God makes one's heart of stone into a heart of flesh the Holy Spirit's call to salvation can still be resisted.	After God makes one's heart of stone into a heart of flesh, no person wants to resist. By definition our desires, inclinations and affections have changed so we willingly and joyfully turn in faith toward Christ.
Salvation is given to fallen sinners (unregenerate) who choose and desire Christ of their free will.	Apart from grace, there is no fallen sinner (unregenerate) who fits that description. A desire for God is not part of the old nature.
The grace of God is conferred as a result of human prayer	It is grace itself which makes us pray to God (Rom 10:20; Isa. 65:1)
God has mercy upon us when we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, apart from his regenerative grace.	To desire and seek God prior to the new birth is an impossible supposition. (Rom 3:11; 1 Cor 2:14) It is the infusion and quickening of the Holy Spirit within us that we even have the faith or the strength to will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock and believe in the finished work of Christ.
Commands to repent and believe the gospel imply the ability of the sinner to do so.	The Command toward sinners to repent and believe does not imply ability. Divine intent is to reveal our moral impotence apart from grace (Rom 3:20, 5:20, Gal 3:19,24). The Law was not designed to confer any power but to strip us of our own.
God helps those who help themselves.	God only helps those who cannot help themselves. (John 9:41)
Unregenerate man contributes his little bit.	Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling.
Repentance is considered a work of man.	Repentance is a gift of God. (2 Tim 2:25)
One of the greatest gifts God gives humans is to never interfere with their free will.	The greatest judgment which God can inflict upon a man is to leave him in the hands of his own free-will. If salvation were left in the hands of the unregenerate sinners, we would indeed despair of all hope that anyone would be saved. It is an act of mercy, therefore, that God awakens the dead in sin to life since those without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God at all. (1 Cor 2:14)
With Man's will salvation is possible.	With man's will salvation is impossible but with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26; Rom 9:16; John 6:64,65) "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." John 3:6

Man was created to glorify God. True, Biblical soteriology will always glorify God, and God alone.