Karl I Beatification Causes Uproar

Yahoo! News (AP ) ^ | 9/28/2004 | William J. Kole

[Pyro7480]

Austrian "Catholics" (socialists) opposing the beatification of a monarch... who would have thunk it? :-P

There are two inaccuracies in the article. Karl I never abdicated, and he never insisted that church and state be separate in all instances.

[Pyro7480]

Catholic ping!

[Chad Fairbanks]

Karl Rove is gonna be beatified? OH MAN... The Left is gonna absolutely go nuts...!!!!

Oh. Sorry. Wrong Karl.

[Servant of the 9]

Otto von Hapsburg, the scion of the family has held office for years in the EC, and is a possible choice for a future president of the EU, or Unholy Roman Empire.

So9

[Pyro7480]

LOL! Karl Rove isn't dead yet. ;-)

[Chad Fairbanks]

Now they'll REALLY be disappointed!

[Aquinasfan]

said Rudolf Stanzel, among believers who think the Vatican is making a mistake.

Beatification is an infallible act, making the above "believer" a non-believer.

[B-Chan]

[johnb2004]

Yes, exactly.

[Stubborn]

And the Roman Catholic Church has been ridiculed for the miracle it attributes to Karl: a Brazilian nun whose varicose veins were healed after she prayed to the monarch.

LOL

[royalcello]

Thanks for posting this important article. Who do these politicians think they are? Notice that it's not just the socialists--even the "rightist" politician quoted opposes the beatification. Hardly surprising, given that the illegitimate government they all serve owes its existence to the destruction of the Habsburg monarchy (accomplished partly by the U.S. under the evil Woodrow Wilson, I might add).

"As an active Catholic, I protest the beatification of Emperor Karl," said Rudolf Stanzel, among believers who think the Vatican is making a mistake. "The church is standing on the side of wealth and power."

This deplorable attitude is the logical result of that disaster known as Vatican II, when Rome foolishly decided to attempt to "come to terms with the new era inaugurated in 1789" (Cardinal Ratzinger's words). The monarchical trappings of the papacy and its traditional alliance with monarchism (tentative since the otherwise great Pope Leo XIII foolishly urged French Catholics to accept the Republic in the 1890s) were tragically abandoned, with the result that today the vast majority of the world's Catholics simply have no concept of sacramental monarchy or the sacred union of "Altar and Throne." Sadly, I observe that even some traditionalists are thoroughly Americanist and republican in their politics, with no sense of longing for the great Catholic, monarchical civilization that was Christendom.

Incidentally, despite being a lifelong non-TV watcher, I am planning to finally get cable this week, initially so that I can watch the beatification mass on Sunday. I see from the EWTN website that they will also broadcast an interview with two of the Emperor's descendants, Archduke Lorenz and Archduke Rudolf.

EWTN: Television Highlights

Will others here be watching this as well?

Hoch Habsburg!

(B-Chan, I always love your graphics.)

[royalcello]

There are two inaccuracies in the article. Karl I never abdicated, and he never insisted that church and state be separate in all instances.

I think you may have misread the last sentence:

Karl I "sought peace and led a religious life with decisiveness," Khol said, insisting that "church and state are in all instances separate" in overwhelmingly Catholic Austria.

I would interpret the second clause as referring to the speaker (Andreas Khol), not the emperor. In other words, Mr. Kohl praised the emperor, and then Mr. Kohl (not the emperor) insisted that church and state are separate in today's Austria.

[Wessex]

"Sadly, I observe that even some traditionalists are thoroughly Americanist and republican in their politics, with no sense of longing for the great Catholic, monarchical civilization that was Christendom."


Yes, I have noticed that. Such a great contradiction! No kings, no aristocracy, just lowly democrats putting crosses on bits of paper every few years. For what, I wonder. Certainly not for the glory of God!

[Stubborn]

Will others here be watching this as well?

I'm sure gonna try, there has GOT to be more to the miracle than vericose veins on a nun. - thanks for posting the TV schedule

What ever happened to needing three miracles? Anyone know?

[NeoCaveman]

Hardly surprising, given that the illegitimate government they all serve owes its existence to the destruction of the Habsburg monarchy (accomplished partly by the U.S. under the evil Woodrow Wilson, I might add).

I do appreciate the pope beatifying the last Catholic emperor. I think he's trying to tell us something, here.

[Guelph4ever]

Thanks for posting this (and thanks to RoyalCello for passing it along).

It amazes me that anyone claiming to be a good Catholic can protest the beatification of anyone by the Holy Father.

Furthermore, I find it horrific that it is implied Emperor Charles tried to impose himself by force on an unwilling people. All he did was try to regain the position which, even according to the Hungarian government in power at the time, he ALREADY held -Apostolic King of Hungary.

Regardless though, had his attempt actually been a military effort (which it was not) there is nothing wrong with using force if need be to correct an injustice. I wonder if these same "devout" Catholics would condemn the martyrs of the Catholic and Royal Army of the Vendee, the Carlistos of Spain, the Cristeros of Mexico or any of the armies fighting to restore the rule of the Hapsburg monarchs during the Protestant Revolution in central Europe?

Maybe so, they've already seemed to turn against the Crusaders and the great Queen Isabella the Catholic of Spain.

[ELS]

What ever happened to needing three miracles? Anyone know?

As far as I know, the process for beatification and canonization was simplified around the time the Code of Canon Law was revised (early 1980's). I think it was three miracles that used to be necessary for canonization, but "they" reduced that. The devil's advocate was eliminated, too.

The standards for becoming a saint have been lowered which has been partly responsible for the significant increase in beatifications and canonizations recently. It seems to me that whenever a famous Catholic dies, that someone begins a cause for their sainthood.

[John Locke]

Gott erhalte, Gott beschütze
Unsern Kaiser, unser Land!
Mächtig durch des Glaubens Stütze,
Führ er uns mit weiser Hand!
Laßt uns seiner Väter Krone
Schirmen wider jeden Feind!
Innig bleibt mit Habsburgs Throne
Österreichs Geschick vereint!

Fromm und bieder, wahr und offen
Laßt für Recht und Pflicht uns stehn;
Laßt, wenn's gilt, mit frohem Hoffen
Muthvoll in den Kampf uns gehen,
Eingedenk der Lorbeerreiser,
Die das Heer so oft sich wand
Gut und Blut für unsern Kaiser,
Gut und Blut fürs Vaterland!

Was der Bürger Fleiß geschaffen,
Schütze treu des Kriegers Kraft;
Mit des Geistes heit'ren Waffen
Siege Kunst und Wissenschaft!
Segen sei dem Land beschieden
Und sein Ruhm dem Segen gleich:
Gottes Sonne strahl in Frieden
Auf ein glücklich Österreich!

Laßt uns fest zusammenhalten,
In der Eintracht liegt die Macht;
Mit vereinter Kräfte Walten
Wird das Schwerste leicht vollbracht.
Laßt uns Eins durch Brüderbande
Gleichem Ziel entgegengehn;
Heil dem Kaiser, Heil dem Lande,
Österreich wird ewig stehn!

Blessed Karl von Habsburg, pray for us, for Christian Europe, and for all Kings and Princes who rule by the Grace of God.

O Everlasting God, who hast ordained and constituted the services of Angels and men in a wonderful order: Mercifully grant that as thy holy Angels alway do thee service in heaven, so by thy appointment they may succour and defend us on earth.

[Fifthmark]

Beatification is an infallible act...

Bunk. Post evidence from a reliable source backing your claim.

[thor76]

There is really nothing to be amazed at here - the opposition to Karl? There is no such thing as a good Catholic king, much less a Catholic country.

Such is masonic policy, followed by those who are in the brotherhood, and those who ape its prestigeous membership & their approval.

This is the same thinking upon which the partition of Poland was based. This is the same thinking which makes people hate offically hate Catholic kings in general.

For to praise Karl, and elevate him to the honors of the altar causes confusion with our history texts. After all, we must teach our children that monarchy is bad -very bad. And that Wilson and FDR were very, very good. Of course, you may not say a word against them.

We are of course evil - as Catholic traditionalists- to want Catholic civilisation and monarchs.

As one who is descendant from the subjects of the Hapsburg empire, I thank God that Karl is to be beatified.