What's Past is Prologue

The Seattle Catholic ^ | August 16, 2004 | Dr. John C. Rao

[AlbionGirl]

Thanks for the ping.

[sinkspur]

Since neither of us can control others Deacon, we might try controlling ourselves. Failing that, the abuse button needs to be used when flame bait or off topic comments are made

Fine with me. I can live with that.

This thread is nearing 50 posts, and it wouldn't have gotten 15 if thorndike hadn't put blood in the water.

[Maeve]

I know you know my mother from this forum. Plenty of folks lately have e-mailed me to tell me that they think she's nuts. I think you just have to stay focused on what you know is true even when people you may like or respect at other times are coming at you with both guns blazing. I know my mother is rock solid. If anyone is entitled to be nuts right now, it really is she -- but she is absolute bedrock and clear as can be about the battle she has been fighting since my brother's death, a battle against evil on the move. So I stay focused on what I know to be real and true, both in the world of flesh and blood, and what I have come to know in the world of the spiritual warfare all around us.

I hope this reflection is helpful in response to your question.

[dsc]

I don't think the abuse button enters into a solution to the troll problem.

It is apparently not possible to communicate to the moderators that theological liberalism is the equivalent of political liberalism--that, in fact, they are two sides of the same coin--and that theological liberals are as much trolls as the political liberals who come over from DU.

They just don't seem to be able to get that.

It looks, therefore, like we're on our own, and that's not a pleasant prospect. Trying to get posters to cooperate in ignoring a troll is like trying to herd cats past a salmon cannery.

The only thing I can suggest is to ignore them, and, if some non-troll rises to the bait, ignore them both until the non-troll disengages.

[dsc]

Sorry, 45 was for you.

Sorry, Maeve.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

It was very helpful Maeve. Wise words. God bless you and your Mom.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Trying to get posters to cooperate in ignoring a troll is like trying to herd cats past a salmon cannery.

LOL

[nickcarraway]

I am now convinced you are secretly a traditionalist, since your posts seem designed to make them look good.

[sinkspur]

I am now convinced you are secretly a traditionalist, since your posts seem designed to make them look good.

I AM a traditionalist. I respect and honor the traditions of the Church. Tradition includes Vatican II and John Paul II.

Most on FR who call themselves traditionalists are, in fact, integrists. They want to wipe out the last forty years of Church history.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Thor76,

I believe that the Seattle Catholic is a Catholic response to the "house salad" publication by the local diocese, which I hear is not exactly the most kosher of dioceses in the US.

[sinkspur]

Those who want the Tridentine Mass should go to the link on the home page above and sign the petition for a personal apostolic administration for the Tridentine Rite. That will facilitate the availability of the Latin Mass since the local diocesan bishop will no longer have jurisdiction.

The SSPX, interestingly, opposes an apostolic administration, since it wants to suppress the Novus Ordo with the Tridentine Rite.

[ultima ratio]

"Oh, and can you get the trads to stop posting articles attacking the Novus Ordo and Vatican II?"

Then you might as well shut down the religious segment of this website since it would be useless as a forum for sensible discussion. You want to pretend there is no problem and shut up everybody who thinks there is. That's unreasonable, since it denies the obvious.

[ultima ratio]

"I AM a traditionalist."

Does that include respect for the Council of Trent and its defined dogma of propitiatory sacrifice? If so, why do you participate in the Novus Ordo?

[ninenot]

Athens/Jerusalem. Mind/Heart.

So what's new?

Nice article, thanks. History is a great teacher, if one cares to read it; and Rao is very conversant with history.

[ultima ratio]

One interesting result of the free will/grace controversy, and especially the resentment of the purported semi-pelagianism of the oldtime Jesuits, has been the rejection of asceticism in general ever since Vatican II. The result has been an increase in horrendous sex scandals. This should tell us something about who was wrong and who was right all along--if we had any sense of true discernment.

[ninenot]

I thought that Rao's outline of Jansenism was very interesting, because it's also an outline of Puritanism, and to some extent an indicator having to do with the 'reform' of the Liturgy.

Rao tossed a couple of small grenades with almost offhand comments about '[antiquitarianism] based on shaky, or non-existent proof...' which is still being bandied about.

On another thread dealing with a Milwaukee Auxiliary, I almost used the term 'pragmatic' to describe that Auxiliary's unstated predicate; as it turns out, in light of Rao's article, that would have been justified (and consistent.)

Hmmmmm.

[ninenot]

Lengthy but VERY worthwhile read.

Too bad that Rao didn't mention the excellent work of our not-quite-yet Saint, Tomas de Torquemada, although the indirect reference through his discussion of the Spanish Bishops' positions is illuminating.

[ninenot]

Did you read the thread-head article?

Rao posits that "tradition" in the Church is arguing over the Athens/Jerusalem question.

Which allows folks like Sinky to argue. It's up to him to argue well, with citations.