Posted on 07/12/2004 10:26:32 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
Roman Catholic leaders in Austria called an emergency meeting today after officials discovered a vast cache of photos and videos allegedly depicting young priests having sex at a seminary.
About 40,000 photographs and an undisclosed number of films, including child pornography, were downloaded on computers at the seminary in St Poelten, about 50 miles west of Vienna, the respected news magazine Profil reported.
Officials with the local diocese declined to comment but were meeting privately on the scandal, Austrian state television reported.
It said the seminary’s director, the Rev Ulrich Kuechl, and his deputy, Wolfgang Rothe, had resigned.
The Austrian Bishops Conference issued a statement today pledging a full and swift investigation.
“Anything that has to do with homosexuality or pornography has no place at a seminary for priests,” it said.
Church officials discovered the material on a computer at the seminary, Profil said. It published several images purportedly showing young priests and their instructors kissing and fondling each other and engaging in orgies and sex games.
The child porn came mostly from web sites based in Poland, the magazine said.
Bishop Kurt Krenn, a conservative churchman who oversees the St Poelten Diocese, told Austrian television he had seen photos of seminary leaders in sexual situations with students. Krenn, however, dismissed the photos as “silly pranks” that “had nothing to do with homosexuality”.
A group of St. Poelten Diocese officials planned to ask the Vatican to remove Krenn as bishop, Austrian radio reported.
Vatican spokesman Ciro Benedettini told the Austria Press Agency that the Holy See had no comment.
Krenn, 68, issued a statement calling the accusations groundless while conceding that he “may have made some wrong personnel decisions” at the seminary.
Well said Piers. Buono Noche.
No you wouldn't.
I understand, but V2 was not a Revolution. It never called for the ABUSES that have been perpetrated in it's name. It did call, for example, for Latin to be RETAINED in the Mass. The evil done was NOT the Council but the evil bastards who subverted the Church hierarchy pre and post Council.
Say, have you got an e-mail address for Thorondir?
He gave me one, but somewhere in among the four computers I use I misplaced it.
Although I'm used to you not making any sense, I honestly don't know what you mean by this comment.
You do tend to get weird at times, so I'm not sure I care to know what you mean.
You asked "how can this be"? I asked the same thing here. Perhaps the answer is APOSTACY?
No, Perl is wrong when his opinion is in conflict with every Catholic's guaranteed right to the ancient Mass of the Church by right of immemorial custom. Here is Michael Davies and Neri Capponi (Dr. of Canon Law) on the issue:
______________________________________________________
The Bull Quo Primum was the first written legislation in the Roman Rite governing the celebration of Mass. Until 1570 the celebration of Mass was governed by what is known as customary law, ex consuetudine. The method of celebrating Mass in a particular country, district, or even city was protected or regulated by "immemorial custom." There was no rigid uniformity in the Roman Rite apart from the use of the Roman Canon, and clear differences occurred in many places. The way Mass was celebrated either in Rome, Lyons or Salisbury was evidently different, but not different enough to constitute distinct rites of Mass, as is the case with the Ambrosian Rite in Milan or the Mozarabic Rite in Toledo.
The correct name to be given these variations is "use." Thus in England and Wales there were the Uses of Salisbury, Hereford, York and Bangor. Some religious orders such a; the Dominicans had the their own variations of the Roman Missal.
Respect for established customs and traditions has always been a primary characteristic of what Dietrich von Hildebrand termed the sensus catholicus, which might best be translated as "the Catholic instinct." The true Catholic attitude was well expressed by St. Thomas Aquinas when he quoted the dictum: "It is absurd and a detestable shame, that we should suffer those traditions to be changed that we have received from the fathers of old" (Summa Theologica. I-II , Q.96, Art.4). St. Pius V manifested an authentic Catholic respect for tradition in Quo Primum, allowing missals which had been used continuously for a period of 200 or more years to be retained.
The Missal of Si. Pius V did no more than codify the rite of Mass that had been in use in Rome for centuries with very little change. The ordinary of the Mass in the first printed edition of the Roman Missal in 1474 is identical to that found in the Missal of 1570. As with all the other missals in use throughout the Roman Rite, the Roman Missal had been regulated by customary law until the written legislation of Quo Primum, and it certainly constituted an immemorial custom.
This raises the interesting question as to the status of an immemorial custom that becomes regulated by written law. It is the consensus of canonists that if an immemorial custom becomes regulated by written law, the latter does not take the place of custom but is added to it in such a way that the subject matter becomes controlled both by the preceding customary law and by the subsequent written law, but with no abrogation of the customary law which still continues to regulate the matter in question. Thus, at least until 1969, every priest of the Roman Rite was entitled to use the Missal of St. Pius V for two reasons: (1) because it constituted an immemorial custom; (2) in virtue of the perpetual indult contained in the Bull.
This raises a further question as to the status of an immemorial custom if the written law that had come to regulate it should lapse, which is the situation of the traditional Mass if Quo Primum has indeed been obrogated. It is our view that it would revert to its original status of an immemorial custom, and be protected by custom unless the legislator abrogated it by specific mention. Neither Pope Paul VI nor Pope John Paul II has made any such specific mention. We conclude that at least by virtue of established custom all celebrants should be free to use the Missal of St. Pius V, and all the faithful to take part in it.
"Vat. II is no more to blame for the immorality of Catholics than the Council of Carthage."
Vat II was not the first cause of the process, nor was it the last. It was, however, a major event and milestone in the process. It was the signal that the modernists were now in the driver's seat rather than operating as the disloyal opposition. It facilitated and provided excuses and cover for many abuses, and simply allowed the legitimization of other abuses.
Was it the only cause? No.
Was it the first cause? No.
Was it the culminating battle? No.
Was it a major victory for Satan and the Modernist Heresy? Most definitely.
bingo, and even if the Ordinary left one so-so parish open, if you knew that the Ordinary was a material heretic and schismatic, I don't see how its sinful to go to sspx, which is only technically schismatic at worst and has got everything else important right. That would be one orthodox way to combat the crisis. If another wanted to go to to the so-so wishy-washy parish and fight the good fight from there, bravo for him too. Why is this so hard for some people?
Narses is always beside himself.
I asked one question, Brian. He turned it into the Inquisition.
And, I was havin' a little fun. In fact, I was havin' LOTS of fun!
Who's the girl in the chapel veil in the picture you posted?
So much for the apologies. If questioning my faith was "havin' a little fun" or worse "havin' LOTS of fun", can you tell me why I should NOT have seen that "fun" as an attack? A personal attack against the rules? Especially since it is thread after thread?
"Who's the girl in the chapel veil in the picture you posted?"
How is that any more relvant than where a Catholic attends Mass? What perverse motive impels your attacks Deacon?
Who do you thin will win the ALL-Star game tomorrow night?
Clemens looks sharp and Blalock tearing it up for your rangers. It got to 85 here today. How hot did it get in Dallas? lol, let's not talk about the Emperor's New Clothes!
I have no idea who they are. Those pics came off of online sites that sell chapel veils.
I don't have a daughter. What are you talking about?
First let's look at the reality on the ground before we worry about the ideology behind it. In actual practice, Vatican II has been a major revolution, comparable to the French or the Russian revolutions in its global impact. An institution that plays a major role in the lives of 1 billion Catholics, and which has a strong secondary effect on the remaining 5 billion humans on the planet, turned its entire belief system and its system of governance entirely upside down. This has changed everything. And the effects are continuing to ripple outwards. In the Catholic Church of today, nothing is the same as it was in 1962.
Secondarily we can look at the ideology behind this revolution. Did it happen by accident, as you seem to believe, or was it planned and executed by certain people who knew exactly what they were doing? It's impossible to know with 100% certainty. But all the evidence points towards an engineered coup.
During the first month of the first session, the liberals executed a trademark play. They introduced a motion to scrap all the prepared programs [schema] that the Vatican had spent 3 - 4 years preparing, and to replace them with new outlines that would be created by newly-formed committees. When Cardinal Ottaviani, the head of the Roman Curia, rose to protest, they turned off his microphone. Soon the revolution was in full swing, and it was clear to the bandwagon-jumpers which way to jump -- get on board the revolution or get left behind with old, practically-blind Cardinal Ottaviani. If you wanted to be on the key committees, if you wanted to have a position of power, if you wanted to be appointed and promoted, you had to get with the program.
Was it merely a coincidence that Weakland was named to the Consilium or that Bishop Hallinan (the founder of the group that would later become "Bernadin's boys") would lead the liturgical revolution in the United States?
No, this was a revolution -- it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. If you were a young Michael Novak who wanted excitement and "sex every day, or even more often," it was the best of times. If you supported the ancien regime, the traditional Catholic faith, it was the worst of times.
It did call, for example, for Latin to be RETAINED in the Mass.
I don't think of you as the kind of person who would be fooled by that kind of language. That was just "wallpaper." At the same time, Sacrosanctum Concilium also called for a total re-writing of the Mass. The vernacular was to be used for all parts that pertained to the people (are there any parts that don't?). All "accretions" were to be removed. The Mass was to be made relevant to the people and inculturated. It was a carte blanche license to destroy the Roman Rite and replace it with a protestant service, as we have seen only too well. Sure, they always toss in a couple of traditional-sounding phrases. Those might have fooled a few people back in 1962, they even fooled Archbishop Lefebvre back then, but this is more than 40 years later. We should know better by now.
I apologize for everything I ever said to you, since everything I post to you gets your nose out of joint.
So please accept my humble apologies.
Do you want me to open a vein?
As I recall, Abp. Lefevre has said that V2, except for a very few documents (out of thousands) was fine, in itself. It was the vagueness that made it dangerous and only because the infection was so deep and prominent.
Let's try anew. Apology accepted.
Blalock didn't do as well in the home run derby tonight as I'd hoped, but this is the first time the Rangers have 5 players on the team.
I'll watch the game, if only to see if there's a Clemens-Piazza face off.
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