Cardinal Maida OK's Tridentine Mass for Detroit

Crux News ^ | 3rd June 2004

[ultima ratio]

Preconciliar popes taught unequivocally that treating all religions as equal and true is heretical. Yet the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima has permitted the altar of a Fatima Shrine to be used for Hindu rituals--even while FORBIDDING the Latin Tridentine Mass in his diocese. How perverse can the Novus Ordo get?

Let's face it--the two Masses reflect two different religions and not all the circumlocutions and lies and doubletalk can disguise the fact any longer. It is not Catholic to believe that all religions are true, that other religionists need not convert, that doctrinal differences do not matter as long as your heart's in the right place.

If the preconciliar popes were wrong--then so is the Catholic doctrine on the infallibility of the Magisterium. If this doctrine is wrong, then none of it is true, including whatever Rome teaches these days. The Novus Ordo can't have it both ways. It can't turn its back on the past yet insist on its own authority. By denying the past, it denies itself.

More than this, by denying the past, it is saying it agrees with Protestantism in its rejection of Magisterial authority, in its love for novelty, in its indifference toward established dogmas, and in its radical ecumenicism and openess to the spirit of the age. All of this is heretical and unCatholic.

[broadsword]

Vehement opposition to the traditional Latin Mass is often a sign of a serious underlying disorder. It makes me wonder about the disorientation of some anti-traditionalists on this website.

My sentiments exactly! What is wrong with them?

[broadsword]

It does make one think. Sodomites hate the Truth. They are turned over completely to their sink at some point. Very scary.

You aren't kidding. But the worst thing of all is that they are not satisfied going to hell alone. They want to drag as many souls down with them as they can. And they purposefully target the young and innocent, while pretending to be what they are not. If their cover were blown, they would lose some of their power to destroy Catholic souls.

[sinkspur]

The Traditional Mass is not a separate rite.

It could be.

[Arguss]

"A group of Catholics in the early 1990s filed a canonical lawsuit in the Signatura, the Vatican Court, to force Cardinal Maida to abide by Eccleiasia Dei, in which Pope John Paul II pleaded with the world's bishops to allow a "generous application" of the indult for the Tridentine Mass. The St. Joseph Foundation assisted in that effort. Maida opposed the lawsuit vigorously, and the legal effort ended when the Vatican ruled that with the death in 1994 of Thomas Marshall, the main signer of the complaint, the rest of signers of the petition to Rome had no standing to pursue the case.

What kind of way is that to treat people? Just because some old guy dies, the Church throws out the whole petition. That is like spitting in the face of serious Catholics. Is it any wonder the Church is bleeding parishioners, and maybe rightly so?

Has the Church deserted everybody?

[broadsword]

What does vehement opposition to the Novus Ordo signify?

Hmmm... the serious weakening of the Lavender Mafia? How sad. Well, here are some crocodile tears for them, sinkspur... NOT!

It's time to bring the devastation of the Church to an end and restore what worked and worked well for 2,000 years. The Amchurch is destroying more souls through its anything-goes heterodoxy, heresy, marxism and gay predation.

Sorry if that truth hurts you and your careful plans for a better world.

[ultima ratio]

The Mass is not for our delight--it's to worship the Father--which is why we should face Him symbolically, and not each other. It is also why a sacred language is appropriate--as well as ancient prayers that have withstood the test of time and have been handed-down from apostolic times. It's not important whether we get a shiver down our spines or whether recently concocted prayers are politically correct and gender-neutral; it's to offer proper sacrifice--which Novus Ordo does not do since it undermines important dogmas of the faith.

[sinkspur]

Your desires for an end to the Novus Ordo are fantasy.

Every single one of the 125 members of the College of Cardinals is a Novus Ordo advocate.!

Ergo, the next Pope will continue to support the Novus Ordo.

[sinkspur]

It's time to bring the devastation of the Church to an end and restore what worked and worked well for 2,000 years.

The Novus Ordo is historically more akin to the worship of the early Church than the Tridentine Rite.

Read the Didache.

[sinkspur]

This same 76% now makes up the bulk of the 76+% who no longer come to Mass anymore.

They were more interested in feeling self-important than they were in worshipping God.

That's not true and you know it.

[broadsword]

Maida was wrong NOT to grant access to a legitimate rite of the Catholic Church. The pope authorized it, Maida should have complied.

Wrong? Not in a diabolically tactical sense. If one wanted to drive reverent, faithful, orthodox Catholics out of the fold, then the gay, bongo dancing masses are the way to do that, and any refuge they might have sought in an indult mass being forbidden to them, the only sane way for them was out.

No, my friend. It was not ust a mistake on the part of SOME OF the Amchurch bishops, it was a plan hatched by their master in hell.

And that plan has prodeeded along just swimmingly. And what a delight that irreverent heterodox outcome is to some.

[broadsword]

Every single one of the 125 members of the College of Cardinals is a Novus Ordo advocate.! Ergo, the next Pope will continue to support the Novus Ordo.

Yeah! YAY! YAAAAAAY! So happy for you. Let's all celebrate! Hey, pass me another of those little lambs to devour. Whoopee! Now don't cry, little boy. And don't tell. This is a celebration, you know.

[drstevej]

***Every single one of the 125 members of the College of Cardinals is a Novus Ordo advocate.!

Ergo, the next Pope will continue to support the Novus Ordo.***

There is an alternative!

[sinkspur]

You are obsessed with homosexuals.

I'm beginning to wonder about you.

[broadsword]

The Mass is not for our delight--it's to worship the Father--which is why we should face Him symbolically, and not each other.

So true. Those seeking some emotional fulfillment or toe-tapping songs are just shallow. We should be reverently seeking divine grace.

Face the crowd? Focus on the crowd? Might make the crowd feel good, but then God is just lost in the crowd and forgotten.

How sad. How diabolically ugly and sad.

[Kolokotronis]

I'm Greek Orthodox, so this isn't really my fight, but I must say that the problem you seem to be facing is perhaps not really the loss of your liturgy in Latin, but rather the loss of a sense of "sacred space" or even "sacredness" itself in the "new Mass". In our parish, most of the Divine Liturgy is prayed in English, at least on Sundays, but the ancient forms and prayers have been absolutely preserved and even an old Greek like me is forced to admit that Ecclesiastical English is a pretty good language to worship God in (even if "sports page" English isn't!). The koine Greek we use isn't spoken anywhere and hasn't been for centuries. Those of us who grew up with it understand it, but that's about it. The words of the Divine Liturgy, like those of your Mass are designed "lift up our hearts" and take us to a plain above and beyond the mundane, where the Cherubim and Seraphim sing their praises. Your Tridentine Mass, even in English, can do that. Unhappily, your new Mass doesn't seem to at all.

[broadsword]

You are obsessed with homosexuals. I'm beginning to wonder about you.

How does that song go, sinkspur? "You're my obsession"? Yeah. I think that was it. It was Perry Homo who sang it, wasn't it? Oh, wait. That was Perry COMO.

'Scuse me. Must be that obsession with those very special clergy members who are destroying my Church and devowering the little lambs.

Oh, well. Silly me!

[Land of the Irish]

Maida opposed the lawsuit vigorously, and the legal effort ended when the Vatican ruled that with the death in 1994 of Thomas Marshall, the main signer of the complaint, the rest of signers of the petition to Rome had no standing to pursue the case.

John Paul II never had any sincere intent for a "wide and generous" offering of the Traditional Latin Mass. It is still not offered on the main altar of St. Peter' Basilica. JP II has never offered the TLM, as Pope, to my knowledge. His flamboyant World Youth Days have never introduced the TLM to young Catholics.

Ecclesia Dei was a straw man for his bogus attempt to silence the last remaining religious order of traditional priests.

Why ask bishops to offer a "wide and generous" application, when he, himself, does not? As a matter of fact, his "wild and crazy" Papal Masses have paved the way for even more radical alterations to the New Order Mass.

[sinkspur]

Weird.

[sinkspur]

It is still not offered on the main altar of St. Peter' Basilica. JP II has never offered the TLM, as Pope, to my knowledge. His flamboyant World Youth Days have never introduced the TLM to young Catholics.

The Novus Ordo is the Normative Mass in the Latin Rite.

Besides, maybe JPII just doesn't care for the Tridentine Mass; he prefers the Novus Ordo.