Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Passion of the Christ: Notes on the Symbolism
Mom's Trad-Cath email lists | Legionaries

Posted on 03/23/2004 1:49:40 PM PST by Askel5

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-77 next last
To: Askel5
Thanks for the very interesting thoughts on symbolism.

When Jesus looked up at the dove, I immediately thought of his Baptism by John and the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove . . .

Did anybody else notice the huge double take Pilate and his servant gave when Pilate spoke to Jesus in Aramaic and Jesus responded in beautiful Latin? ("What is this Galilean peasant doing talking like Cicero?") But of course God would speak perfect Latin . . . wouldn't He?

21 posted on 03/23/2004 6:04:48 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Quid est veritas?

[Est vir qui adest]

22 posted on 03/23/2004 6:38:55 PM PST by Cincinnatus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
Awesome post. Thanks.
23 posted on 03/23/2004 7:21:21 PM PST by Jaded (My sheeple, my sheeple, what have you done to Me?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinnatus
Cute anagram!

Dicit ei Pilatus quid est veritas et cum hoc dixisset iterum exivit ad Iudaeos et dicit eis ego nullam invenio in eo causam. Jn 18:38

24 posted on 03/23/2004 7:39:13 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
I miss your threads and am glad you are posting again.
25 posted on 03/23/2004 7:44:14 PM PST by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines; Askel5
Table Jesus built

It is altar and more than altar.

The apocryphal “come to dinner” scene with Jesus and Mary has become one of my favorites. Though I was initially uneasy with the scene I have come to love its inconography.

I like the whole idea of the table imagery, which is so rich, on so many levels. The table signifies the altar -- and Who plops Himself down upon it, of his own free will?

And still more: being a carpenter, it's Jesus's craft to make things from wood. He avails himself of a thing that's supposedly known, a tree, with a finite life and meaning, which he transfigures into something else. The Incarnate Logos orders "woodness" to a new and permanent life, informed with meaning. "Resurrected" as Table, the wood is saved from fire or corruption, and acquires a new life.

The scene ends with a vivid evocation of the Asperges, with specific application IMHO to the Immaculate Conception. It is a scene that keeps on giving, the longer you look.

26 posted on 03/23/2004 8:49:13 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Romulus
Asperges. Very good!

It is a scene that keeps on giving, the longer you look.

You are right. I wonder how much more there might be.

27 posted on 03/23/2004 9:19:08 PM PST by Between the Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Salve Regina
LOL. I don't know what to make of three ribs.
28 posted on 03/23/2004 9:20:17 PM PST by Between the Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
I might add that the whole "come to dinner" theme re-presents in a general sense the Church's eschatological prayer, "maranatha", and in particular Mary's prayer at Cana (Mary at that point constituting in her person the whole Church in union with Christ) that launches her son's public life. Prophetically calling her son to dinner, she calls for more than she knows.

The mopping up of blood has already been commented upon, but I wonder how it's received by Jews who're conscious of the squads of Israeli rabbis whose ministry it is to collect the body parts of those killed in terror bombings.

The film takes great pains to show the blood of Jesus covering a great many people, from Our Lady right down to the Roman torturers, plainly a message that his sacrifice is intended for all.

Speaking of universality, recall the shot of the Golgotha scene from above, in which the camera pans past the Cross while the background swirls by in the opposite direction. This is a visual presentation of the saying "stat crux dum volvitur orbis" (the Cross stands fixed while the earth turns): it illustrates the literal centrality of the crucifixion (not just the Event, but the transcendent Truth made manifest in the Event), its nature as sole fixed reference point in the universe. We know where we are and what we are, if in fact we're anywhere or anything at all, only by reference to the unchanging center where we find the crucified Logos who alone imparts meaning and order to the world. Seen this way, Jesus's judgeship over all souls is far more than a juridical event; it's existential because it's only by reference to him that we know what we are. Appalled and speechless in the presence of the crucifixion, we realise that we cannot judge it because it judges us.

The script has the soldiers, preparing to raise the cross, calling out "Sursum!" which of course evokes the "Sursum corda" from the Mass.

Also, about the scourging scene: I've not yet noticed any comment about the X-shaped welts on the back of the Christ, subliminally conveying the monogram for Cristos.

29 posted on 03/23/2004 9:40:09 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
I wonder how much more there might be.

Help me out here: is the Asperges scene immediately followed by the Last Supper footwashing? Even if it's not, the theme of washing and purification links the two scenes.

30 posted on 03/23/2004 9:48:25 PM PST by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: NYer; Askel5
Q: In the scene in which Jesus saves the woman caught in adultery from being stoned, we see Him writing in the sand. What is the significance of this act?

Gibson's Jesus begins writing in VERY LARGE letters, so He could not have written much, at least not without moving.

But my favorite answer to this perennial mystery came from an old Jesuit I know, who opined thus:

The Pharisees tell Christ that the woman was caught in the act of adultery (John 8:3-4) and they try to trip Him up by asking, "The Law of Moses says that she deserves stoning, but what do you say?" (John 8:5).

In answer, Christ bends down and writes something in the sand.

My Jesuit friend suspects that Christ wrote either Lev. 20:10 or Deut. 22:22, which is the Mosaic law to which the scribes were referring.

But those verses are quite explicit: If a woman and man commit adultery, they are both to be put to death.

Somehow or other, the Pharisees "caught" only the woman "in the act" of adultery. Very curious.

Or maybe the guy was a friend, and allowed to slip away.

The Jesuit's notion was that by being a "strict constructionist" on His Mosaic law, Christ was able to show mercy and forgiveness upon the woman.

Without her partner, what else could the scribes do, but put down their stones and walk away?

It also puts an edge to Christ's request/advice to her: "Go and sin no more." (Next time, you may not be so lucky.)

As I said, we will never know for sure in this life, but I like my Jesuit's explanation.

31 posted on 03/23/2004 10:01:02 PM PST by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother; Between the Lines
I was told that the table ended up in Pilate's headquarters.
I saw a table about that size, but forgot to look for the open-work skirting.

I suspect that table might be at Pilate's palace, but I haven't seen it there (3 viewings so far). But then, 1) we don't see an eating area of the palace, and 2) the table is the right size for a modest family dining room, not the palace of the imperial governor. So maybe it does not recur in the film.

32 posted on 03/23/2004 10:18:48 PM PST by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother; Between the Lines
I don't think we get a good look at the table in the Upper Room where the Last Supper is held. But it is the home of a "rich man." The table Christ made in the film would be too small to seat twelve, but if we don't see much of the Upper Room's table in the film, perhaps Gibson reused the prop there.

???

33 posted on 03/23/2004 10:32:17 PM PST by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dansangel
ping
34 posted on 03/24/2004 12:43:56 AM PST by .45MAN (Friends don't let Friends vote democrat!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal; Victoria Delsoul; GirlShortstop; kstewskis; Dr. Scarpetta; lonevoice; Uncle Jaque; ...

Good thought in regards to the table, but they are reclining at the table during the scene of the Last Supper.

Just bought the coffee table edition of The Passion of The Christ, and it clearly shows the disciples sitting on the floor around the table. (Actually there are 3 tables in this scene! {page 104-105})

I picked up a book on the literature of Christ (1946 copyright) at our local library, and in it are many poems and stories speaking of Jesus's life. During the passion, one writer, Mary Borden writes a tale titled, From Friday to Sunday. In the story she has Mary Magdalene waving a robe to keep the birds from scavenging at Christ on the cross.


35 posted on 03/24/2004 4:26:28 AM PST by Northern Yankee ( "Behold Mother... I make all things new." - Jesus of Nazareth)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Askel5; .45MAN
This is excellent - a lot of it parallels the discussion we had at our own church this past Sunday. Thank you for bringing it to us.

.45MAN - thanks for the ping.
36 posted on 03/24/2004 4:41:36 AM PST by dansangel (*PROUD to be a knuckle-dragging, toothless, inbred, right-wing, Southern, gun-toting Neanderthal *)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
The Truth found Judas even though he had denied Him and tried to hide from Him.

Makes sense. Great post.

37 posted on 03/24/2004 4:48:19 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
From Mom's Trad-Cath email lists | Legionaries

Are "Traditional Catholic" and "Roman Catholic" synonyms?

38 posted on 03/24/2004 6:32:08 AM PST by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal; NYer; Askel5
My Jesuit friend suspects that Christ wrote either Lev. 20:10 or Deut. 22:22, which is the Mosaic law to which the scribes were referring.

Good point - I've heard that explanation too. I always like to think that Jesus was writing down the names of the mistresses of the would-be stone-throwers.

39 posted on 03/24/2004 6:37:04 AM PST by opus86
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
*BUMP*!
40 posted on 03/24/2004 7:00:40 AM PST by ex-Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-77 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson