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Agony In Albany - Extract 3 - Breakdown of the Liturgy
The Wanderer
| 1991
| Paul Likoudis
Posted on 02/28/2004 5:03:12 AM PST by NYer
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"Every liturgical norm is violated in this Diocese with eficiency and intent"
A Catholic priest
1
posted on
02/28/2004 5:03:13 AM PST
by
NYer
To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ...
In 1991, Paul Likoudis attended a mass at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. It was videotaped by a member of the Coalition of Concerned Catholics, in the event this description of Mass should be challenged and every abuse noted for correction by
Inaestimabile Donum was allowed or performed.
About 50 Catholics attended the Mass held in the chapel, formerly the sacristy or cloak room. The altar used was once a pedestal for a statue in the cathedral and around it on 3 sides stood the people.
The priest wore no chasuble, but over his alb he wore a long red and green knit Christmas scarf.
The homily was given seated and its theme was that "it's not what we do that counts, but how we feel." The bread and wine were offered together; there was no lavabo or Orate, Frates. After the Sanctus, there was no approved Eucharistic Prayer and the words of Consecration were made up.
There was no hanc igitur, or epiklesis. the Host was broken during the words of institution; everyone sang the Per ipsum; the prayers after the Our Father were invented and bore no resemblance to the authorized prayers. During the Lamb of God, little baskets containing Hosts were passed through the assembly and each person who wanted to receive Communion took one Host. Before the Ecce Agnus Dei, the priest left the altar to collect the baskets and then people and priest self-communicated at the same time.
After consuming the Host, the people processed to the altar to sip from one of 4 glass goblets, while the priest played a cassette tape on a portable recorder.
The entire Mass, including the homily, took just under 20 minutes.
"In lots of churches in the diocese," said a layman who viewed this film, "this mass would seem conservative."
2
posted on
02/28/2004 5:13:04 AM PST
by
NYer
(Ad Jesum per Mariam)
To: NYer
The bread at the Installation Mass contained, in addition to wheat flour and water, honey and baking soda,...Canon 924 §1 The most holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist must be celebrated in bread, and in wine to which a small quantity of water is to be added. §2 The bread must be wheaten only, and recently made, so that there is no danger of corruption. §3 The wine must be natural, made from grapes of the vine, and not corrupt.
3
posted on
02/28/2004 5:21:58 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: NYer
The homily was given seated and its theme was that "it's not what we do that counts, but how we feel." ...The entire Mass, including the homily, took just under 20 minutes. Canon 767 §1 "The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text."
4
posted on
02/28/2004 5:29:26 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: NYer
During the Lamb of God, little baskets containing Hosts were passed through the assembly and each person who wanted to receive Communion took one Host. Inaestimabile Donum #10. "The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long. [Cf. Sacred Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction "Immensae caritatis," no. 1.] Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave this task to the laity."
5
posted on
02/28/2004 5:32:49 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: NYer
How many of the laity are heartbroken or have just walked away in disgust in this diocese.
I hope a lot of the faithful in Albany watched World Over Live last night and connect the panel's advice and observations to Bishop Hubbard.
To: NYer
The priest wore no chasuble, but over his alb he wore a long red and green knit Christmas scarf.Canon 929 In celebrating and administering the Eucharist, priests and deacons are to wear the sacred vestments prescribed by the rubrics.
GIRM #81: "In the sacristy the vestments for the priest and ministers are to be prepared according to the various forms of celebration: (a) for the priest: alb, stole, and chasuble; ..."
7
posted on
02/28/2004 5:36:07 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: NYer
There have been ecumenical services where Protestants and Catholics receive Communion, services which are advertised as a valid mass for Catholics while retaining th emeaning of Holy Communion for participating Protestants. There have been Masses concelebrated with protestant ministers who receive Communion with the priest.Canon 908 Catholic priests are forbidden to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests or ministers of Churches or ecclesial communities which are not in full communion with the catholic Church.
Canon 844 §1 "Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ's faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in §2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2. (note: the latter covers Baptism)"
§2 "Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ's faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid. (note: Protestant ministers do not pass this test)"
8
posted on
02/28/2004 5:40:27 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: NYer
You go NYer! (BTW, I am ill to my stomach now)
9
posted on
02/28/2004 5:44:46 AM PST
by
undirish01
(Go Irish! If only we can get the theology dept. turned around.)
To: NYer
Agony in Albany could also be "Agony in Richmond." For the twelve years we were in that diocese my children and I did not receive even one valid Communion. Probably just as well as Confession was also discouraged and changed to communal penance services where we were told to confess only one sin to the priest. This is why I can never harshly criticize anyone who fled to SSPX.
To: american colleen; AAABEST
How many of the laity are heartbroken or have just walked away in disgust in this diocese. An Albany Catholic from a rural part of the diocese reported that at a Midnight Mass in 1990, a small rural parish built to hold 700 had more than 1100 people attending, because that parish is staffed by an orthodox priest.
Total attendance at Christmas Day masses exceeded 7,000, in a town with less than 5,000 inhabitants, most of whom are Protestant.
* * *
Thank you, AAABest, for posting the norms governing the mass!
11
posted on
02/28/2004 5:47:17 AM PST
by
NYer
(Ad Jesum per Mariam)
To: american colleen
AC, did you think the "townhall meeting" was somewhat productive?
Did the bishops seem to have some semblence of underestanding where the problem really lies? (ie: Bp Bruskewitz in Dallas 02')
I'll catch the re-run tomorrow.
12
posted on
02/28/2004 5:48:33 AM PST
by
undirish01
(Go Irish! If only we can get the theology dept. turned around.)
To: NYer
In 1991, Chancellor Fr. P, attempting to deflect criticism that Bishop Hubbard wasnt loyal to Rome on the specific issue of altar girls, replied that the local Bishop has the right to decide whether girls may be altar servers. In his push for the ordination of women, the feminization of the liturgy was a primary goal, a layman said, and thats why altar girls are so important.
No agenda?
I wonder...if Hubbard were to half-heartedly offer his resignation, like Weakland did, would he be stunned if Rome accepted it like Weakland was?
One of the groups with whom I sing is doing a piece right now with a biblical subject - Belshazzar from the book of Isaiah. He's the one who saw the writing on the wall after stealing the sacred vessels from the temple in Jerusalem. He drank from them in a Bacchanal sort of feast and his city, Babylon, fell in short order. These guys are starting to remind me of the Old Testment villians who took what was sacred and used it for profane purposes. It's just sickening.
And I don't blame the laity at all for being upset. I'm praying for all of you for a good, orthodox bishop who will set things right.
13
posted on
02/28/2004 5:54:58 AM PST
by
Desdemona
(Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
To: undirish01; NYer; american colleen
I can't speak for A.C. or others, but as one who was very skeptical of this report and the "town hall" setting, I was very pleasantly surprised. It was made clear that what we have a predatory homosexual problem, not a hetero "child abuse" problem.
I'd say that 81% of the victims being male teens is very telling.
Nearly everyone agreed that the clergy is no place for homosexual males.
14
posted on
02/28/2004 5:56:08 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
To: AAABEST
Wow! I cannot believe it!
Even Bp Darcy?
Thank you, AAABEST. (and yes, I think it healthy these days to view EVERYTHING with skepticism)
15
posted on
02/28/2004 5:58:29 AM PST
by
undirish01
(Go Irish! If only we can get the theology dept. turned around.)
To: undirish01; american colleen; Renlea; rcath60; AAABEST; k omalley; Desdemona
In this hell hole of a diocese, those Catholics who still recognize a valid mass, gravitate to what few remaining churches where they can celebrate a valid liturgy.
After 27 years of "Hubbard doctrine", many catholics take for granted what is served up at Sunday Mass, as being orthodox. They would probably rise up in arms if another bishop should restore an authentic liturgy - it's that alien around here.
16
posted on
02/28/2004 6:04:55 AM PST
by
NYer
(Ad Jesum per Mariam)
To: AAABEST
I'd say that 81% of the victims being male teens is very telling.
VERY telling and it was the one thing that a lot people just would not take into account. Yes, there were a few cases of true pedophilia, and those men should have the full weight of the law on them, but for the most part it was homosexuality.
I think there is going to be a gradual waking of the laity to this.
17
posted on
02/28/2004 6:06:09 AM PST
by
Desdemona
(Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
To: NYer
I'm really starting to feel guilty. I live in an archdiocese where kneeling never went out of style; where the music is icky in places, but only because there are so many proud alumni of St. Louis University where the folk Mass got it's start here; where the Cathedral wasn't destroyed by our only liberal bishop (and nominally at that), but finished and the paperwork started for its designation as a basilica. Some priests say the goofy alternate Masses, and I heard one last week (still not sure the consecration was valid), but for the most part, it's just not done. All Tabernacles were ordered to the foot of the Crucifix, or at least VERY visible in the church.
There are arguments all over town on the benefit vs. dangers of life teen and children's liturgy of the word. It's completely up to the individual pastors and some won't hear of it. I still won't go to Mass in a basement unless the church is undergoing some sort of work, but in some places that's where daily Mass is, to save money on heating expenses. And every parish has daily Mass.
We appear to be in much better shape than I thought. I can't imagine what so many Catholics out there have endured. And to still have faith is amazing.
18
posted on
02/28/2004 6:16:48 AM PST
by
Desdemona
(Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
To: NYer; american colleen; Renlea; rcath60; AAABEST; k omalley; Desdemona
Reading the events of how NYer's diocese has gotten to this rotten state (ie: recruiting active homosexual men to be priests who were rejected by other dioceses, for starters) reminded me once of a conversation I had with the last priest from my parish.
He leans "a little left" (his words) and we were chatting about the how other diocese have plenty of priests and plenty of seminarians. I mentioned Joliet, Il. as being one of those (pretty sure...I forget now). At any rate, my priest said, "Oh, Joliet will take anybody and everybody." (alluding they take the "rigid men" who were rejected by other dioceses)
Well, it looks like to me the "take anybody and everybody" (unfit candidates for the priesthood) mentality has gotten us into this sad situation (especially for the church in Albany) given the numbers released by the "abuse commission" the other day.
I still feel Rose's book is absolutely correct.
19
posted on
02/28/2004 6:18:22 AM PST
by
undirish01
(Go Irish! If only we can get the theology dept. turned around.)
To: GirlShortstop
I was thinking about you reading through this thread in regard to the conversation we had yesterday.
Take a look through it for some perspective where some of us are coming from.
20
posted on
02/28/2004 6:27:25 AM PST
by
AAABEST
(<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
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