Sexual Abuse in SOcial Context: Catholic Clergy and Other Professionals

Catholic League Website ^ | February 2004 | Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights

[GirlShortstop]

We aren't saying, "Oh, we're doing pretty good compared to the rest of you."
Good point.

And our enemies now attack us for using the data to defend our Church against calumny.

Sick, just sick.

There are many adjectives and phrases that would fit in your final point sitetest; kudos to you for using the most charitable ones, and for a fine post!   FReegards.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would just like for you to tell me WHY the RCC need/published this data in the first place?

Is that too much to ask?

Becky

[GirlShortstop]

We need to know about that "non-secular world" of facts.

         Why?

What, are you five years old?   Because I said so!  :-)  
What portion of the sentence preceding the one that you've pasted is unclear?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The topic of sexual abuse is not presented in a secular way when it is raised. 

First I want to thank you for at least discussing this without spewing about my anti-catholic bigotry:).

Second the above pasted sentence is the one before that you said explained Why' I'm sorry, I guess I am a 5 year old. I don't understand. Can you be a little more specific?

Becky

[sitetest]

Dear PNAMBC,

"I would just like for you to tell me WHY the RCC need/published this data in the first place?"

Did you read my posts?

Here are reasons (either repeated from previous posts, easily inferred from them, or readily inferred from the general facts):

1. It is important to know whether our problems are worse than elsewhere, so that we might accurately determine the proper efforts to fix them.

2. Since it was important to do the research, it was important to publish the data, if for no other reason than the Catholic people have a right to know these results. We are undergoing massive upheaval in our parishes to fix this problem, we have a right to know the severity.

It is beyond belief that anyone would need this explained to them.

3. Many anti-Catholic bigots have used the scandal to impugn the Church, her teachings, her authority, her fundamental goodness. We've seen that disgusting behavior literally in thousands of posts right here on FR. Catholics have a right to see the evidence which proves the bigots are liars and frauds.

4. The rest of society has a right to know these facts, as well. Many may have legitimately wondered about what was going on in the Catholic Church, and may have speculated about the extent and relative depth of the scandal within the Catholic Church. They deserved to see whether the sensationalist, anti-Catholic coverage in the major media was warranted or not. It is not.

5. In particular, many persons lacking basic knowledge have cited the discipline of priestly celibacy as a primary problem in this scandal. Well, if the celibate Catholic clergy have a lower rate of abuse than the MARRIED CLERGY of other faiths, then it is difficult to continue to make this argument, and retain a shred of intellectual integrity, respect of others, or a reputation for sanity.

Thus, publication of this data vindicates the Church, in that it proves definitively that the anti-Catholic bigots who cited celibacy as a root cause of the scandal were wrong.

If I had all night, I could think of more reasons, but frankly, life is short, and the anti-Catholics who need this aren't really worth my time.

sitetest

[american colleen]

It contains most interesting facts about who the driving forces were behind the media's efforts to destroy the Church's credibility. Really, the whole thing was driven by academics at Boston College, MIT, and Harvard. Mostly by faculty who are involved either in the homo promo crowd or who stand to profit big from genetic research.

Add BU to those schools and you have the originators of "Voice of the Faithful" - add in some local priests (Cuenin & Bullock) and some not so local priests (McBrien) and you have the rest of the "Voice of the Faithful" story. Notice the odd silence of "Voice of the Faithful" regarding moral issues or Church doctrine or dogma. You only ever hear their stands on issues when it involves "changing the church" (meaning: we want power).

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Thanks for the Christian response:)

It is important to know whether our problems are worse than elsewhere, so that we might accurately determine the proper efforts to fix them

How does knowing if the problem is worse elsewhere determine how to fix it?

Since it was important to do the research, it was important to publish the data, if for no other reason than the Catholic people have a right to know these results.

Will these results help the catholic people?

It is beyond belief that anyone would need this explained to them.

Once again, thanks for the christian response:) Your answers have been very enlightening.

Catholics have a right to see the evidence which proves the bigots are liars and frauds.

What about turning the other check, forgiving seventy times seven? Does pointing out others wrongs make your wrongs less wrong?

It is not. That is your opinion. My opinion is it ALL needs to be reported. I am sorry it is not. As far as the RCC is concerned when your as big as They are your going to get mud slung at you. You stick your head above the crowd your going to get spotted. Deal with it rather then pointing a finger.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to me.

Becky

[american colleen]

"We're not so bad because everyone has these problems"

I didn't get that at all - what I got was "open your eyes - this garbage is everywhere - our entire society has a huge problem."

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Sexual Abuse in SOcial Context: Catholic Clergy and Other Professionals

Catholic League Website ^ | February 2004 | Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights

No bias in this report, nothing but the facts I'm sure.

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

OK, maybe if I had read the whole article I would have gathered that. What I did read, put me off tho, for reading the rest. Other then the reason you stated, I see no point to the article, other then to exonerate the crimes.

Bec

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

May I add:)

It does seem funny to me that many, not all, catholics did not like having NC tell them how they felt the problem should be handled. But in gathering this data, aren't they doing exactly what some didn't want others to do to them.

Becky

[sitetest]

Dear PNAMBC,

"Thanks for the Christian response:)"

Speaking truth to those in the darkness of their own lack of knowledge is a Christian response. You're welcome. ;-)

"'It is important to know whether our problems are worse than elsewhere, so that we might accurately determine the proper efforts to fix them'

"How does knowing if the problem is worse elsewhere determine how to fix it?"

Asked and answered. Go back and read my posts. I've explicity stated the reasons why. If you can't find 'em, I can't help you.

"'Since it was important to do the research, it was important to publish the data, if for no other reason than the Catholic people have a right to know these results.'

"Will these results help the catholic [sic] people?"

They already have. They shore up faith shaken by the scandals by putting them in perspective. All the lies told about our Church because of the scandal, all the denigration, all the false accusations, all the questioning of our teachings, our practices, are all put to rest.

That certainly helps the Catholic people.

"'It is beyond belief that anyone would need this explained to them.'

"Once again, thanks for the christian response:) Your answers have been very enlightening."

Frankly, PNAMBC, it is the most charitable response imaginable. That one would even question this could easily be taken as evidence of the worst sort of anti-Catholic hatred. I prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume some other reason why you would question this, but I literally can find no charitable explanation.

Thus, because I've discounted the uncharitable explanation, it is beyond belief that anyone would need this explained.

"'Catholics have a right to see the evidence which proves the bigots are liars and frauds.'

"What about turning the other check, forgiving seventy times seven? Does pointing out others wrongs make your wrongs less wrong?"

We forgive the bigots their crimes against the Body of Christ, but that doesn't mean we ought forego correcting their falsehoods. In fact, it is an act of charity to do so.

Any intellectually honest anti-Catholic would reconsider his hostility to the Church in light of this report.

"'It is not. That is your opinion. My opinion is it ALL needs to be reported. I am sorry it is not. As far as the RCC is concerned when your as big as They are your going to get mud slung at you. You stick your head above the crowd your going to get spotted. Deal with it rather then pointing a finger.'"

Where did this stuff come from? Are you quoting someone here? I didn't write it. Why switch from what I wrote to this?

"The rest of your post is irrelevant to me."

LOL.

When you can't refute,
Scoot.

Can't say I blame you. Some of the best stuff was in 4 and 5.

;-)

sitetest

[american colleen]

Oh God no, how can you exonorate those crimes? It's a scandal, embarrassing and hideous - not to mention a betrayal of He who created us by the very men who vowed to serve him. No story can change that.

But if you read the whole thing, as I did, what I got was this filth is everywhere and any mother who thinks her son is going to be molested ONLY in the Catholic Church has her head in the sand. This garbage has pervaded every facet of society, no matter what the denomination or school.

As a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago a teacher in the hs in the next town over from me was fired and arrested for having oral sex with a male student who he seduced in the parking lot.

As an aside... I also got that the Catholics within the Catholic Church who call for a change to priestly vows can see from this article with its sourced research, that priestly vows have nothing to do with sick perverted minds which are everywhere, sadly.

Heck, we see this crap to a lesser degree on TV, in the halls of our schools, in the malls and walking down the street. We are a sex saturated society.

[ninenot]

Already the media and legislators have made statements to the effect that the Church shouldn't say anything about the homosexual marriage issue because it has no credibility.

Slightly off-topic: Limbaugh has the same problem--and interestingly, uses the Catholic Church in his self-defense. An ally of the Bishops.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You're a good person AC:)

Becky

[american colleen]

No different than anyone else, believe me.

[GirlShortstop]

The topic of sexual abuse is not presented in a secular way when it is raised.

By reading FR articles, I'm certain that you can attest to the fact that the Roman Catholic church is *typically* pointed to when the sex abuse topic is raised.  Now, as I see it as a Catholic, I am both obliged and expect to know the truth of the matter.  (consideration given of course to what is appropriate in light of decency and justice).  And I submit to you that segments of the truth include what sitetest has elucidated already (very nicely imho!).  Consider this if you will:  if someone had a baby, and their child was deformed or had a disorder, wouldn't a parent be inclined to want to know why physiologically this happened?  Suppose the deformity/disorder may have been congenital, hereditary.  Would wanting to know about the other instances in your family tree be wrong?  Facts allow one to deal with the issue as well as put it in perspective.  FReegards.

Man searches for three basic things: truth, life, and love.
We will find that these things are fractions from a whole.
Without the whole, we will find that man will never have joy and peace.

Truth is essential to all human beings....   Bishop Fulton Sheen

[dsc]

"What about Satan using powerful people to lessen the influence of the Church?"

I was assuming that, of course.

[american colleen]

It's all of a piece. I can't understand why thoughtful people can't see it. It's kind of like (funny that you mention Steve Lewis) when I ask Catholics who "want to change the Church" if they want the Episcopalian Church - since the changes they want are the same that the Episcopalians have made over the years. I point out the empty pews of the Episcopalian Churches... and there is no answer.

See you tomorrow at the rally at the state house. I just hope there is a large turnout.