ARCIC issues text on Mary

Independent Catholic News ^ | 4 February 2004

[sinkspur]

First of all, you backed me up by adimitting in your post that the Rosary ISN'T recited at any masses in your Parish either. Every single instance is before or after mass.

Why in the world would anybody recite the Rosary at Mass? It's the Mass! Focus on the Mass!

When we were kids, we recited the Rosary at the school Mass to give us something to do. The priest had his back to us and was praying silently.

Private devotions should never intrude on the Eucharist. Never.

[AAABEST]

You just restated exactly what I've said, yet somehow you're angry with me again.

In my Chapel I haven't gotten out the door yet without praying to Mary, not once.

in fact, DURING any NO-Mass I've attended I don't remember even hearing her name mentioned. When I first attended mass at Our Lady, it was like a blast from the past or something.

I'm not Irish, but you sound like you have an Irish temper. Do you wanna throw something at me? Here you go:

[TheRevEN]

Dear Fifthmark: Before anything -- I apologize for the lack of ping here -- please see below.

You posted above:

"If you're going to take cheapshots at me, I'd at least appreciate a ping. I merely stated "Huh?" at the obscure verbiage contained in the article.

I agree with you that she co-operated with Our Lord in the Redemption of mankind; hence, I hail her under the title of Co-Redemptrix, as many of the saints of the Church were wont to do. I carry around the Rosary in my pocket and say it everyday. I'm glad to hear that you have recourse to Our Blessed Mother also - may she help bring you to the True Faith."

First of all: I am still a relative newbie around here. I have seen "Pings." I have been wondering what they are because I have never seen them anywhere else before. I have no idea how to "Ping." If you want to be pinged, fine. If you would be willing to help me out, you could explain about the ping thing and let me know how to do it. If the proper protocol was to read all the fine print on this website before posting, I apologize. I taught myself how to use a computer and to go on the Internet all by myself -- seat-of-the-pants style. So, too many complications just get me lost, and I tend to ignore the more wondrous options.

Meanwhile -- I do not think I was taking "cheap shots" at you. I agree that the verbiage in the article was indeed obscure. I was trying to help clarify. It is really interesting, but not at all surprising, how much emotional energy bubbles up as soon as Our Lady is mentioned. The people I am annoyed with are those who make it sound like any attempt at Christian unity is some dark conspiracy to destroy Christ's Church. Our Lord is grieved by our infighting, I believe.

I think that ahadams2 put our position very clearly. Many of us actually believe the Marian doctrines. (I am quite convinced of the immaculate conception, personally) We just object to making them *necessary* for salvation, which is what is meant by the Roman term, "dogma." If I am annoyed by anyone around here, it is at whomever wrote that the attempts at ecumenism were merely selling out Our Lady's place and role in the Faith.

As for your final comment: Buddy, to the best of my understanding, Our Lady has already helped to bring me to the true Faith: that which we have received from Our Lord Jesus Christ through the Apostles. Marian doctrines help to enrich, strengthen and clarify our Faith in Christ. Making them mandatory for salvation exceeds the magisterial mandate. In this our Eastern Orthodox brethren agree with us Anglicans.

So happy pinging. I will try to get the hang of it.

Blessings EN+

[sinkspur]

When a poster is mentioned in a post, it is considered courteous to make sure you put his or her name in the "To:" box at the top of your post along with other intended posters.

And, welcome!

[AAABEST]

Q: Is it proper to say the rosary during mass?

A: There is no offence to God in saying the rosary during part of the Mass. Christians were encouraged to say the rosary during mass when mass was still in Latin, and thus the readings were difficult to understand for most people. Since the switch to the vernacular, it is easy to follow the proclamation of the word of God (2 or 3 readings) which is an essential part of the Eucharist. Since, according to the Constitution on the Liturgy of the 2nd Vatican Council, the Eucharist is the summit of the Church's activity ("culmen ad quo actio Ecclesiae tendit") and the source from which she draws all her strength ("unde, omnis ejus virtus emanat") (SC 10) mass has absolute priority -- under normal circumstance over any other expression of devotion -- we are requested to concentrate our attention on the sacred actions of the memorial of Jesus' passion, death and resurrection as is celebrated in Holy Mass.

I'm forced to use a V-2 sympathetic site, but that's all that's out there. The reason Mary is honored is not because people have difficulty with Latin.

[TheRevEN]

Thank you -- I will keep that in mind and try to make use of it. I was not aware that Fifthmark was one of the people deploring ARCIC's activities. Too bad. EN+

BTW I am not at all annoyed by any of the banter. It's fun around here.

[AAABEST]

Oh yeah, here's the link:

http://www.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq167.html

[sinkspur]

The reason Mary is honored is not because people have difficulty with Latin.

People DO have difficulty with Latin; if you don't believe it, just ask some of your cohorts at the SSPX Mass to translate the Roman Canon without a Missal.

Mary is honored by devoting full attention to praying to her; and Christ is honored by devoting full attention to Him when celebrating the Mass.

[AAABEST]

BTW I am not at all annoyed by any of the banter. It's fun around here.

It's nice having you. I'm much more comfortable with conservative non-Catholics than I am liberal Catholics, much more in common.

Besides you have your ducks in a row, which is always a plus.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

re No Rosary in NO churches:

I haven't taken a survey but I would be sympathetic to complaint the Blessed Virgin is not venerated either with Rosary or otherwise. But in my NO parish, there is rosary before 730 am mass and often Saturday mass.

[AAABEST]

People DO have difficulty with Latin

I didn't state otherwise, I'm one of them.

My point was that this is not the reason for her presence in trad congregations or prayers. Since I've been going to Our Lady I haven't spent a single day not thinking of her.

She really is quite the uniter. I'm going to keep you in mind next time I'm praying the Rosary, which will be tonight with ETWN in fact. If you do the same we'll be in communion.

What do you say?

[AAABEST]

You're courteous enough, you just sound as if you'd courteously chop my head off in my sleep.

Last week we prayed to Mary before the Father Karl left the altar. If you want to call that "after the mass" OK.

As I stated above, I haven't seen of felt her presence like this within a congregation in years. Maybe that's unique to Florida, I wasn't putting your church down. That's simply my experience.

Maybe I'll end every single post with a disclaimer stating "This has been my experience".

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Your experience regarding the Rosary is common in many dioceses throughout the US, mine included. I have never heard a Rosary prayed before or after a N.O. Mass.

[Fifthmark]

If the goal of the ARCIC's activities is to arrive at a consensus by watering down Marian doctrine to exclude the precise wording of Catholic dogma, then it is deplorable and I as a Roman Catholic have an urgent need to oppose it. If the goal is to enunciate the Catholic and Anglican differences on Marian doctrine and come to an understanding as to why each side holds their views, then so be it, but I fail to see how this fosters "Christian Unity." What those in pursuit of ecumenism don't realize is that the Catholic Church cannot cede from dogma on any point, so all the "give" that will come in fostering a unity in belief must come from the non-Catholic party. This is what the Catholic Church has taught all along and what modern churchmen are often at a loss to understand: The unity that Christ desired is found in the Catholic Church and the only way "Christians" will ever partake in it is to return to the true fold. I don't mince words and neither should the ARCIC. Take care.