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Locked on 01/26/2004 9:33:25 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator, reason:

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GOOD NEWS - BAD NEWS (Don't Say You Weren't Warned)
Self | 1-22-04 | Sidebar Moderator

Posted on 01/22/2004 6:34:29 PM PST by Sidebar Moderator

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To: rwfromkansas; Sidebar Moderator; P-Marlowe; Revelation 911; The Grammarian; SpookBrat; ...
I do like being able to see religious posts and debates in the main forum since they are seen by more people.

JR added the "browse all" link so a person can choose to do just that.

I've too often been glad that what we generate is NOT seen by the viewing public in the open forum.

201 posted on 01/23/2004 1:40:06 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!!)
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To: Sidebar Moderator
I read it and took the you to be 2nd person plural, thefefore "editoral" as in "People can pretend to be....yada"
202 posted on 01/23/2004 1:44:38 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!!)
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To: Sidebar Moderator; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; ...
Seems I'm a bit late to 'the party'. Your policy strikes me as totally fair. There should be no reason why we can't practice rational discourse in a civil manner. And, while we're on the topic ...

Please don't take away our forum ....

I already went through FR Withdrawal early last year when my graphics board blew. Trust me, folks, FR Addiction is real!

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


203 posted on 01/23/2004 2:01:54 AM PST by NYer ("One person and God make an army." - St. Teresa of Avila)
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To: CAtholic Family Association; drstevej; Sidebar Moderator; sandyeggo; american colleen
This reminds me of the 80/20 principle. 20% of the population makes life miserable for the 80% because they need to draw attention to themselves. Recent court rulings immediately come to mind ;-D

We are all 'technically' adults in this forum. Perhaps it's time to act like one!

204 posted on 01/23/2004 2:19:29 AM PST by NYer ("One person and God make an army." - St. Teresa of Avila)
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To: NYer
Please don't take away our forum ....

I agree with this, hopefully the 20% will not cause us problems.

205 posted on 01/23/2004 3:25:37 AM PST by .45MAN ("I am what I am because of what I am")
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To: Sidebar Moderator; .45MAN
From your mouth to God's ears BUMP!
206 posted on 01/23/2004 4:36:17 AM PST by dansangel (*PROUD to be a knuckle-dragging, toothless, inbred, right-wing, Southern, gun-toting Neanderthal *)
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To: drstevej
Your rules sound good to me. While I enjoy the information on Religious events and the theological discussions at time I think we forget I Corinthians 13 (some more than others). The information I’ve learn from the brethren has been helpful to me and I would hate to see this forum disappear. But if we are presenting an unholy attitude to non-believers who may be reading these posts then it would be best to pull it.

I remember once hearing a saying that I think has much truth:

The church is like Noah’s Ark. You can’t stand the stink inside except for the storm outside.
207 posted on 01/23/2004 4:36:41 AM PST by HarleyD (READ Your Bible-STUDY to show yourself approved)
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To: Sidebar Moderator
You are to be commended for your complete review of a subject before making comments. In addition you have made a very thoughtful and grounded response to the site. Good luck in your efforts and thanks for volunteering. Volunteers are the heroes of our country.
208 posted on 01/23/2004 4:36:51 AM PST by q_an_a
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To: Ex-Wretch
Can't you see the wooden ruler and all that Kleenex stuffed up her sleeve?

That was before my time, but we did have demerit cards.
209 posted on 01/23/2004 4:50:19 AM PST by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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To: Desdemona; Ex-Wretch
Can't you see the wooden ruler and all that Kleenex stuffed up her sleeve?

Oh YIKES! That was Sr. Ladislaus! I had her for sophomore Spanish and my brother had her for freshman Spanish. He's a year younger than I am and she would point her ruler at him and say "and make sure you tell that BLOCKHEAD sister of yours to do her homework!"

It took years of intense therapy for me to get over that! And my mean brother still reminds me from time to time.

210 posted on 01/23/2004 4:54:29 AM PST by american colleen
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To: Admin Moderator
ok, stupid question, how does one get to the backroom, is it chat?
211 posted on 01/23/2004 5:00:07 AM PST by graceland
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To: RnMomof7
I wonder if Jesus would get a warning when he rebuked the Pharisees ?

Jesus was able to see directly into the hearts and souls of those he addressed; He would get no warning from me. Unfortunately, moderators don't have that ability.

On the other hand, the moderators from the Sanhedrin gave him a little more than a warning. We can't do that either. Just think of us as a compromise between Jesus and the Sanhedrin, abide by the rules of the forum, and otherwise say what you want to say.

212 posted on 01/23/2004 5:23:24 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator (I'm keeping a log; wouldn't want to shortchange anyone on their three chances.)
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To: bluebunny
I read this with great sorrow. ... The thought of this forum possibly going kaput or be heavily censored into some PC garbage saddens me greatly.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't see where asking people to discuss issues with courtesy and decorum is "PC".

I find the "attacks" no worse really than what goes on the main forum.

I'm afraid that's not much of an endorsement for what is mostly discourse between Christians.

213 posted on 01/23/2004 5:27:59 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator (I'm keeping a log; wouldn't want to shortchange anyone on their three chances.)
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To: Sidebar Moderator
***On the other hand, the moderators from the Sanhedrin gave him [Jesus] a little more than a warning. ***

Turned out to be only a three day suspension. 8-)
214 posted on 01/23/2004 5:29:52 AM PST by drstevej
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To: Sidebar Moderator
Sadly, a forum devoted to perhaps the highest endeavor of the human mind and soul, that of the religious expression of faith, has become an embarrassment to Free Republic. All too often the discourse appearing in the Religion Forum resembles that found in those threads devoted to the War on Drugs, less the profanity, of course. Consequently, the question whether the Religion Forum will remain much longer as a feature of Free Republic, at least in its present format, is very much up in the air. How that question is answered depends entirely on the response each and every one of you make to this announcement in the next few weeks.

Hello. I am a lurker, which may or may not mean that my opinions carry as much weight as those who post on the Religion forum on a regular basis. However, if I can make one thing known to you, it is that I personally have learned much more from the short time I have been kicking around the Free Republic Religion forum than years upon years of sitting through sermons, Bible studies, even college level study. I imagine there are many here who could say the same.

Part of that learning process, for me at least, unfortunately comes from being told I am wrong about certain things. I understand the need to quell blatant ad hominium attacks, however when a person is wrong about something they truly believe they are right about, there are times then the truth needs to be spoken powerfully into their life. Often, to our overly sensitive politically correct minds, that could come off as an "attack", when it really isn't.

I would pray that you have the Spirit of discernment (in spades, you are going to need the wisdom of Solomon for this, buddy) to understand the difference between an attack and a strong correction.

The very fact that you acknowledge that this forum repersents "the highest endevor of the human mind and soul" means you understand what is at stake for those who are passionate about their beliefs.

I thank God for this forum. I welcome the oppertunity to continue to learn and grow here.

pony

215 posted on 01/23/2004 5:33:52 AM PST by ponyespresso (simul justus et peccator)
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To: Technogeeb
Respectfully, might I ask a few questions for the purpose of clarification of the new rules?

Certainly. In fact, I've been waiting for someone to raise the issues you deal with herein. I'm not singling you out, except to acknowledge that your concerns are presented in the most reasoned and courteous fashion so far. I will try to answer your questions in random order.

My initial suspicion was that it was simply an attempt to stop the Arminian-Calvinist clashes and the Catholic bashing, but the response to post 60 (banning a tag line) led me to believe that the intent is to do something of much greater scope.

I'm afraid it wasn't that simple, since the examples you provide, while great in volume, are really only the tip of the iceberg when one looks at the entire problem. Remember I said that this is a religion forum, not a Christian only forum, and that all recognized world religions are welcome? But look around - do you find anyone other than Christians (and no, for the purposes of this particular discussion, Mormons don't qualify)? Did you ever wonder if that just might be because they've been driven away? I don't know if that's true, of course, but the possibility is very real, and that's sad. How do we Christians live up to the requirements of the Great Commission if we only talk (or fight) amongst ourselves?

If you can clarify what the actual objective is and what scope it covers, I would be appreciative.

I'd be glad to do just that. Our primary goal is for the Religion Forum to become an essentially self-policing forum. There's nothing that would be more welcome to me than to be the moderator of a forum which gave me nothing to do. Simply put, that can't happen unless everyone makes the attempt to improve the tone and tenor around here. This effort may seem harsh and stringent to some, but please believe me when I say that Jim Robinson and I have every intention of slacking off when the folks here take a little more responsibility for what they say to each other.

The former president of the Southern Baptist Convention called Mohammed a "demon-possessed pedophile" (or some such language; I cannot recall the precise phrase). Would a posting that used that language be forbidden under the new rules, since Muslims would obviously find it offensive?

An article containing that language would be acceptable for discussion, providing it wasn't posted solely to start a flame war. I see nothing wrong with Christians and Muslims being in dialogue with each other; in the example you provide the Muslims offering their arguments why Mohler was wrong in his description, and Christians offering their counter-arguments. All without name-calling and insult, of course.

Similarly, it could be suggested that news article mentioning pedophile priests might be offensive to those who are members of those sects. Does that mean that such articles are now forbidden? If not, what about use of such biblically "extreme" words as "sodomite" relating to the recent Episcopal heresy? For that matter, is "heresy" too strong of a word?

First of all, I should think any religious body would be offended by "pedophile priests"; mine certainly would. :) More seriously, it's context, context, context. For example, calling someone a heretic, especially done without any qualifiers, is, shall we say, confrontational and at Free Republic, such is taken almost universally as an invitation to "war". On the other hand, couching your objection to another's tenet as a question wondering about its orthodoxy - clearly seeking clarification - is another thing entirely.

You mentioned (in the original post), for example, the attacks against "new-age Catholics" (or words to that effect). Do the new rules preclude those who might have traditional views of Catholic doctrine (i.e., a devout belief in the sanctity of life) from using the word "heretic" against those who tolerate or embrace such things as abortion, yet who still claim to be Catholic? If so, does the limitation only apply against actual members of FR, or does such restrictions against "name-calling" include a general prohibition (so that such language could not be applied to anyone at all, even the subject of some posted article)?

Maybe it's just me (and if it is, at least for now you'll just have to put up with it), but wouldn't it be more productive to ask such a person to explain how such a position is not heretical? Let me reiterate: sprited discussion is, and always has been, welcome at Free Republic. However, there's a difference between spirited and nasty.

Can we always assume that posting scripture is acceptable, or should such text be avoided?

Post Scripture at will. I personally would prefer that people identify which translation they're quoting (and that other's not make that fact alone the point of their objections), but I won't insist on that. From what I've seen around here, it's not the posted Scripture that causes problems, but the inevitable follow-on interpretation that causes difficulties.

I trust this has been helpful, and again, thank you for your well thought out questions.

216 posted on 01/23/2004 6:06:16 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator (I'm keeping a log; wouldn't want to shortchange anyone on their three chances.)
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To: Sidebar Moderator
It is not the order of things, and it will no longer be tolerated.

That's not bad news, that's fantastic news

217 posted on 01/23/2004 6:13:51 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Some people consider Wiccan to be a religion; even the U.S. Army makes allowance for it. What if a Wiccan fervently insists their religion is Christian?

Like it or not, Wiccan is a recognized religion, albeit one that is pagan, and that by their own admission. I personally can't remember a Wiccan ever claiming to be a Christian, although here I'm speaking of ones who proudly proclaim themselves such. I do know more than a few self-professed Christians who are really pagan at heart.

Even so, should such a person appear here at the Religion Forum, my personal approach would be to query them about their beliefs concerning the essential tenets of Christianity (you all know what they are). It would be pretty clear in their answers that the two faiths are incompatible.

There is a more important point to be made at that juncture, I think. Let's say that someone - anyone - continues to be a Christian against all available evidence. It seems to me that we have some Biblical instruction about that very situation, something about "shaking the dust from your sandals". If everyone simply ignored posters whose positions are intellectually bankrupt, not to mention spiritually questionable, believe it or not they will simply go away in most cases. No one can withstand the silent treatment for very long. And for the occasional exception of the rule who insists on making a pest of himself, well ... that's one of the things we moderators are here to handle.

But "Defending the Faith" has been a rallying cry to the death for the past 2,000 - 5,000 years. All jokes aside, it's no small matter to people of faith.

I agree. But ... shouldn't the point of our defense be to win converts rather than to drive people away?

218 posted on 01/23/2004 6:15:41 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator (I'm keeping a log; wouldn't want to shortchange anyone on their three chances.)
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To: q_an_a
Thank you, but I'm not a hero. I drew the short straw.
219 posted on 01/23/2004 6:17:15 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator (I'm keeping a log; wouldn't want to shortchange anyone on their three chances.)
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To: Sidebar Moderator
Nice post -- not bad for a person whose screen name initials are SM.... ;-)
220 posted on 01/23/2004 6:18:01 AM PST by r9etb
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