The Oath Against Modernism and the Spirit of Vatican II

Catholic Family News ^ | January, 2000 | Raymond B. Marcin

[sinkspur]

Why would Apologia link to a site that has to disclaim racialist links?

It's that old "I've got lots of Jewish friends" garbage.

[sinkspur]

That answers my question. Apologia provides a link to another website. The information is not on the Apologia website itself (www.kensmen.com). Matt Drudge provides links to the Washington Post, but I don't consider Drudge a flaming liberal communist just becasue he provides a link to a communist publication.

Why doesn't Apologia provide a link to the National Catholic Reporter? Because it's liberal? That's likely the case.

This Apologia website links to sites that the owner thinks are significant. All of them are ultra-trad. Some of them are racist.

[Fifthmark]

I second your recommendation and urge all Catholics to check out the painfully honest "Dictionary of Dissent":

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/modernist2catholicdictionary.html

[kstewskis]

Go to www.the-pope.com and read it yourself. Sedevacantist city

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe kstewskis was referring to the following site: www.kensmens.com

Thank you, third double, that was exactly what I was referring to.

[Land of the Irish]

I especially liked this definition:

clericalism
in the classic sense of the word, "clericalism" refers to a policy of maintaining the power of the hierarchy (why have a hierarchy if it isn't empowered to do certain things, anyway?). Nowadays, it refers to an attitude that modernists accuse pre-Vatican II Catholics of having had, by which they mean that "pre-Vatican II Catholics were blindly obedient and did everything the hierarchy wanted and never verbally smacked-down a Bishop when he needed it." They must not have ever read about Sts. Catherine of Sienna, Robert Bellarmine, Thomas Aquinas, Athanasius, etc.

It's kind of interesting how one can categorize a Catholic by his attitude toward clerics:

* Traditional Catholics see their clerics as what they are: men who've been ordained by Christ through His Church and given a sacred power to offer the Sacraments. Some of them are saints, others are diabolical. We give them ordinary religious assent, but do not obey when they contradict the Faith.
* Modernist Catholics see the very concept of "cleric" as a hideous offense against equality and fraternity and yadda yadda. However, they always pull out the "You must obey; he's a Bishop" card when it comes to a Bishop who is pushing what they want.
* Neo-conservative Catholics (you'll find them in the mainstream, softly whimpering about Novus Ordo abuses) do tend to be a bit clericalist. Many see any papal doodling as "infallible" and, while they usually have wonderful Catholic imaginations and true desire to do the right thing, they often have a false sense of obedience and an ignorance about Vatican II and the liturgy and such. Their lives in the Church are usually a living Hell (liturgical abuses, insanely heretical catechists, etc.), but they never do anything about the true causes of these problems out of fear of being "disobedient." There is a lot of heroic patience in the neo-conservative crowd; if only they'd read about some of our warrior Saints and light a few fires!

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

That page is hilarious and educational.

[sinkspur]

Thank you, third double, that was exactly what I was referring to.

Check out the links on the kensmens.com website, such as www.the-pope.com.

[kstewskis]

Check out the links on the kensmens.com website, such as www.the-pope.com.

Did that, those are offsite links. And those also were sited at the bottom (as third double brought up)

"I warn you that the index page of this site does link to (but I don't believe it endorses) other sites that express racialist attitudes."

So what? As RajunCajunTrad said, "user beware."

Did you even go as far to look at the onsite links I was referring to?

Catholicism 101

or

this one that is directed especially towards new Catholics, or those considering conversion

Please tell us what you find offensive about these links, which are direct kensmen.com links.

[sinkspur]

Please tell us what you find offensive about these links, which are direct kensmen.com links.

the-pope.com is a direct kinsmen.com link, and it is clearly sedevacantist.

Your logic would conclude that, as long as I had links to Dr. Martin Luther King, I could have links to the KKK on my website.

[sinkspur]

Yes but kensmen.com also lists John Paul II as the current Pope. It even lists Vatican II as an ecumenical council.

Then clearly it is schizophrenic.

One cannot think JP II is the Pope, and not the Pope, at the same time, which Apologia clearly does.

[kstewskis]

Your logic would conclude that, as long as I had links to Dr. Martin Luther King, I could have links to the KKK on my website.

What??? Where on earth do you come up with that??

There is no logic in your statement.

By your "logic", you would call Matt Drudge a flaming liberal because he has links to the Washington Times, NY Times, ect...as third double pointed out to you.

Sorry, I, nor most thinking Catholics (or people for that matter) look at everything with tunnel vision, or are afraid to think "outside the box."

By your thinking, you are. I gave you more credit than that.

[sinkspur]

To be perfectly honest with you, sometimes I feel as if John Paul II feels the same way.

Then you "feel" wrongly.

JP II is, and has been, the Pope for the last 25 years. Your conjecture is pure foolishness.

[kstewskis]

the-pope.com is a direct kinsmen.com link, and it is clearly sedevacantist.

Another thing, you failed to answer my question, pertaining to the specific onsite links I sited. What is wrong with those I pointed out?

By your logic, you are still calling a page that talks about "Catholisim 101" racist, because "a link of a link" related to that page is sedevacanist??

LOL!! I sure hope you don't have any funny cousins or uncles in your family tree that you'd rather not talk about. What you're saying is kind of like talking about the second or third cousin we'd all like to forget ;)

[sinkspur]

Non-sequitur.