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FUBAR in Iraq- Career soldier opinion
Capitol Hill Blue ^

Posted on 10/12/2003 2:22:33 PM PDT by BlackJack

Edited on 10/12/2003 8:07:06 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

The Rant

Good Morning Vietnam By DOUG THOMPSON Oct 10, 2003, 07:55

Vietnam. So long ago yet so vivid still in the minds of so many. Long enough ago that the history of the conflict is now taught in high schools and colleges – all too often by young men and women too young to have served there if – in fact – they served at all.

Vietnam. A name conjured up now whenever somebody wants to question what is happening in Iraq. Another Vietnam, they say. Another debacle for America.

Had lunch the other day with an old friend, a career soldier just back from Iraq. He missed Vietnam. Too young. He used to say he was glad. Vietnam raised too many questions for someone who wanted to make the military his life.

He survived other conflicts. Somalia. Lebanon, Grenada, Desert Storm. After Desert Storm, he marched down the streets of Washington to cheers, a hero’s welcome that had eluded American military men and women since World War II.

My father was “Class of ’45,” veteran of World War II, mustered out after the war ended. He came home to cheers, parades and a grateful nation. It didn’t start out that way. Even with the national horror over Pearl Harbor, some doubted the wisdom of entering the war. When American soldiers fell in the first battle in North Africa, Winston Churchill called our military “the unqualified leading the untrained into the unknown for the ungrateful.”

Four years later, Churchill – and the rest of the world – held a much higher opinion of American capabilities in war. The nation that had never lost a war stood proud.

Then came Korea. No victory there. Just a truce – of sorts – and more questions than answers.

Then Vietnam.

“I missed Vietnam,” my friend said at lunch. “I thought about retiring after Desert Storm. I should have.”

I couldn’t help but notice how much older he looked. More lines in the face. More gray in the hair. More emptiness behind the eyes.

Was it that bad? I had to ask.

“Bad,” he said. “Classic FUBAR.”

In military terms, FUBAR is the worst-case scenario. Most military operations start out as SNAFU (Situation Normal, All F***ed Up). If things get worse, they graduate to TACFU (Totally And Completely F***ed Up). When things get really bad, they reach FUBAR (F***ed Up Beyond All Repair).

“A mission without a goal,” he said. “An engagement without rules. The intel was pure FUBAR. No exit strategy. We’re going to be there for a long, long time. Maybe people are right. Maybe it is another Vietnam.”

Vietnam was 10 years, 58,325 dead and many more left scarred permanently. More Americans died in one day of battle in Vietnam than the total casualty count of the Iraq war.

“So far,” he said. “We were in Vietnam for 10 years.”

The news out of Iraq usually brings reports of more American deaths at the hands of Saddam loyalists who use snipers, ambushes and car bombs to continue a war that President George W. Bush says ended months ago. Those who support the Bush administration say the press is exaggerating the problems in Iraq.

“No,” my friend said. “They’re not. The situation is worse. Far worse.”

So why not speak out? Won’t people listen to a career soldier?

“Not this career soldier. I want to get out on my own terms, with my rank and pension intact. My family’s future is more important. I’m no fool.”

From the restaurant window we could see the Pentagon, including the section taken out by a hijacked airliner on September 11, 2001.

“I’ve been a professional soldier most of my adult life,” he said. “I’ve been proud to serve my country even when I thought we might be wrong. But I’m not proud now. And that makes me want to puke.”

As we walked back to our cars, I thought about a day more than 30 years earlier. A young man returning home from war walked through an airport terminal in Los Angeles, back on American soil after too long away.

An older man approached and asked:  “You been in Vietnam son?”

“Yes sir, I have. Just got home.”

Tears welled up in the old man’s eyes. He spat in the young man’s face and walked away.

As my friend, a no-longer-proud career soldier, walked away to his car, I fought back my own tears.

Good morning Vietnam.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: capitolhillblue; credibleasdebka; dougthompson
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No exit strategy for Iraq is the main problem. This will get very expensive over time. We should concentrate on destroying terror cells around the world, not get into expensive occupation situations.
1 posted on 10/12/2003 2:22:33 PM PDT by BlackJack
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To: All
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2 posted on 10/12/2003 2:24:49 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: BlackJack
Capitol Hill Blue + unnamed source....


I think I'll pass...
3 posted on 10/12/2003 2:28:06 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: BlackJack
Dear BlackJack,

Is this "professional soldier" as reliable as Douglas' last anonymous source? The "intelligence contact" he'd "known" for 20 years?

LOL.

No thanks, I think I'll pass.


sitetest
4 posted on 10/12/2003 2:30:07 PM PDT by sitetest (Remember to pray for my mom.)
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To: stands2reason
LOL. Ya' beat me to it.
5 posted on 10/12/2003 2:31:11 PM PDT by sitetest (Remember to pray for my mom.)
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To: stands2reason
Exactly. . .especially this part: "From the restaurant window we could see the Pentagon, including the section taken out by a hijacked airliner on September 11, 2001." The side where the Pentagon got hit overlooks the Navy Annex and Arlington Cemetary, no restaurants that I can recall.

I think the writer is making things up.
6 posted on 10/12/2003 2:31:53 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: stands2reason
Those were my thoughts, too.

Anti-military anti-Bush anti-America hit piece...

7 posted on 10/12/2003 2:33:37 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Serving You... on Operation Noble Eagle!)
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To: Gunrunner2
, I thought about a day more than 30 years earlier. A young man returning home from war walked through an airport terminal in Los Angeles, back on American soil after too long away.

An older man approached and asked: “You been in Vietnam son?”

“Yes sir, I have. Just got home.”

Tears welled up in the old man’s eyes. He spat in the young man’s face and walked away.

So he's saying this happend to him?

I'm saying this happend to me, coming through that same airport, yes I got some nasty looks, but that same old man with tears in his eyes, took me aside bought me a meal and a beer and thanked me for doing my duty as he had done during wwII.

This article smells like bad fish.
8 posted on 10/12/2003 2:36:11 PM PDT by tet68 (multiculturalism is an ideological academic fantasy maintained in obvious bad faith. M. Thompson)
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To: BlackJack
As my friend, a no-longer-proud career soldier, walked away to his car, I fought back my own tears.

Oh brother.... Little heavy on the drama there buddy.

The war is won.... this is no Vietnam. We hold a country not all of which are happy we are there, and they act out and are quashed. Our losses, while heavily reported, are fewer than we lose to crime in this country every day. And the job of rebuilding there (the success of which is not reported) is what we agreed to do when we decided to take over and control another country. We have an exit strategy.... to not rush to leave before there is an infrastructure in place and a government we can live with that can survive.

Come on.... those of us safely at home, don't be so easily scared. Because someone shoots back we must run away home? We have had a great success.... losing great soldiers as we always will in a war, but fewer in the whole conflict than would often be lost in a DAY in Vietnam.

Continued strength to our forces.... which I know they have.... and please.... lets have a little fortitude back home.

9 posted on 10/12/2003 2:36:51 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Listening for returning feet and voices at the door)
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To: Gunrunner2
That's what I was thinking. Maybe from Crystal City if you eat up on the roof and got a 1/2 mile long neck.

This story is 180 degrees from what I'm hearing from career military returning from Iraq. Maybe this guy is Sgt Joe Wilson????? Don't out his wife!

10 posted on 10/12/2003 2:37:39 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: sitetest
From his bio:

Despite his success in new media, Thompson remains a newspaperman at heart and lives by the creed that it is the role of a newspaperman to "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."

Sounds like all he has done for his country is be a newspaperman. What the hell has he ever done for his country but suck its blood and put it down.
11 posted on 10/12/2003 2:37:50 PM PDT by montomike (montomike)
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To: William McKinley
For your evaluation.
12 posted on 10/12/2003 2:39:29 PM PDT by dighton (Nasty Little Cliqueâ„¢)
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To: BlackJack
Newspeak Definition: Exit Strategy = Telling the enemy what conditions he must achieve in order to get the United States to leave.

Can any of these "exit strategy" freaks elaborate on FDR's exit strategy for World War II?

13 posted on 10/12/2003 2:40:13 PM PDT by Seydlitz
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To: Alas Babylon!
LOL. . .half mile long neck would just about do it.
14 posted on 10/12/2003 2:47:17 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: tet68
Good on ya.
15 posted on 10/12/2003 2:48:09 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Seydlitz
It seems to me that rebuilding a democratic Iraq and turning it over to the Iraqis, who will be equipped to deal w/their own problems w/o us, IS an exit strategy.

VN sucked. I lived in this country all thru Vietnam. People I loved were there and came home changed & not for the better. This is not Vietnam, except for the media trying to do now what they did then: turn the American people against the war and forestalling any democracy in country.

If we had had the Internet and FR in 1972, would it have turned out differently? I think so.
16 posted on 10/12/2003 2:49:02 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: BlackJack
No way!

I still remember that Doug Thompson had to back down from his last unnamed source.

Anyone ever hear anymore about his proof? I thought not.

Thompson has absolutely no credibility with me.
17 posted on 10/12/2003 2:49:56 PM PDT by Columbine
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To: BlackJack
What do you mean by exit strategy. The exit strategy is to help rebuild the country's infrastructure, get the government going and to build a permanent strategic base in Iraq. Six month after the war it's looking pretty good.
18 posted on 10/12/2003 2:50:53 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace ((the original))
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To: stands2reason
Ditto that.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
19 posted on 10/12/2003 3:51:18 PM PDT by martin_fierro (The trivmphant retvrn of A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: All
To Doug Thompson:

This piece is a load of bull hockey!

Is this "careerist" an Officer or Staff Non-Commissioned Officer? You gave no grade or time-in-service; you gave only the vague "I missed Vietnam" line. If this "soldier" really exists and had the courage of his convictions he would at least let the world know if he was a Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel or Sergeant Major or perhaps Master Sergeant. Maybe you should have asked how he did on his last "Performance Evaluation or Fitness for Duty Report" as these reports tend to color the perceptions of many soldiers', sailors' and Marines' thoughts of "how things are going" whether they are serving in a theater of war or in garrison.
20 posted on 10/12/2003 4:39:36 PM PDT by Joe Marine 76 ("We few....We proud few....We Band of Brothers")
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